2k Levi Major and ATC list, Batrep to follow

[No One]

It doesn't just depend on no of shots, but if you have a low number of shots, then your target coverage can't be wide: 3 shots, 2 hits (if that due to hit negs), most multi-model units won't care about losing <2 models. Add on stuff like trans (most meta big models are nids, with Levi/strat. You've also got 'Crons with quantum), and I definitely think the target coverage is too narrow: feels like an 'I hate knights' choice, with a side of 'anti-lurk nids' if taking multiple.

[zimko]

The potential is there for big damage so it keeps your opponents honest in their movement.

[No One]

I mean, only if they care about 4+d6 damage? Like nobody's going to poke their head out to lose ~1-2 models for 'free', but unless you're running big wound count models, you're happily going to shrug and take it if needed.

Versus exo, which you should...also respect as well for big models (8 wounds into T8 no save, while t-fex is 10: you're not happily taking either of those), but will also just splat e.g. marines or sisters. (And also has strat if you've somehow ended up with spare CP). Now, t-fex does get some mediocre secondaries, slightly better defensively, 10 pts cheaper and IMO the big one is it isn't blast, so I won't say it's straight worse overall. But for forcing most of your opponents to 'respect this sightline'? I'd say exo does that better.

[zimko]

These are all good points. The defensive profile on a tfex is pretty good and lack of blast lets you move it up the field to hold objectives without worrying too much. In the game I watched of the guy with 3 of them, all 3 were moving to mid field and sitting on objectives while the Tervigon was going in deep into the enemy deployment zone. He played against a Levi Zoanthrope spam list and was picking up Zoanthropes with them. The Zoanthrope player simply couldn't deal with the Tfexes while 40 termagants and a mean Tervigon were in his face.

[Master Chief]

Even if the weapon is blast, most of the times the Exo might easily shoot even after tagged in close combat during opponent's turn, so not much bother at all.



An Exocrine should not move on the battlefield to take objectives around, he will keep the objective in his own deployment zone.

Moving around and taking objectives is a tirannofex purpose. But in that case I will honestly prefer it with a 4++.

But also the Voracious Ammunitions are very good on him for the reasons exposed by piers, and in that way you can keep the 4++ on the Harpy which will benefit the most from it.

[zimko]

I have a problem with the idea of an Exocrine holding the backfield objective. From there, he's very limited on what he can see. The TFex can move aggressively and get better angles. So I guess it's a difference in playstyle and terrain.

[zimko]

Ok, ATC is done. What a ride. I was the team captain in charge of pairings for my team so I'll try to remember roughly how each round went.

My list as a reminder:
Levi Battalion:
HQ
- Broodlord: Dirgeheart, The Horror
- Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Catalyst, Onslaught
- Neurothrope: Neuroparasite, Paroxysm
Troops
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
Elites
- Deathleaper: Alien Cunning
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Venomthropes
Fast Attack
- 3 Raveners
- 3 Raveners
Heavy Support
- Rupterfex: Dermic Symbiosis

2000 pts and 3 CP

We also had: Chaos Knights, Necrons, Drukhari Wrack Spam and Blood Angels

Round 1 we played against an easy team. My game was vs Ultramarines and I kind of just rolled over him. Still he managed to get enough points to make it a 19 to 1 win. (In ATC the games are scored normally but are then converted to a 20 point differential. So to score 20 to 0 you have to win by 50 or more points. And to win a game you have to win by 10 or more points.) Our team won 4 out of 5 games.

Our team won 66 to 34

Round 2... vs Art of War. HAHAHA. Welp. I did pairings as best I could. I ended up playing against Siegler... Siegler was playing Necrons using a list designed to kill Sisters. Since our team didn't have a Sisters player, he got matched against me. His list had 2 kinds of C'Tans, Silent King, 3 skorpeck destroyer units, 3 scarab units, 2 doom scythes, 2 chronomancers.
Mission: Data Scry-Salvage (4 objectives on the diagnol of no-mans land)
I won the rolloff for first turn so he used the Deceiver to put his 2 doomscythes into reserves to give my Tfex nothing to shoot at. I tried to go aggressive with 1 unit of Warriors using Onslaught, charging some skorpecks and killing a unit, then move blocking the other skorpeks from another unit of Warriors that I moved onto a mid objective. Then on the left flank I moved Raveners, 2 units of Warriors and Venomthropes to the left side objectives where he had 2 units of Scarabs and Skorpeks (I'm going to spell this wrong everytime I spell it). I left my Zoanthropes back because his big C'Tan could eat them alive by ignoring their invuls, and there was nothing for them to smite in LOS anyway. I also moved the Tfex towards the far left objective.
On his turn 1 he slaughtered the warriors I presented to him. The Silent King moved behind some ruins near the second group of warriors. The Ctans did a bunch of mortals to my second group of warriors and the Silent King shot them, killing 2. On my left flank, the Scarabs did actions for his secondary and screened the Skorpeks. They used some ruin walls to block me from making easy charges because ATC decided not to use the 2" rule.
On my turn 2 I wiped out the scarabs but couldn't get to the destroyers behind them. I did however secure both objectives on that side and had 2 full units of Warriors and Venomthropes and Deathleaper to hold them. On the right flank, I pushed out some raveners to hold an objective and used my last 2 warriors there to kill 2 destroyers. The rest of those destroyers wiped out the warriors. The Zoanthropes still had no targets because he kept his Ctans and characters back so I put one of the zoanthrope units into reserves.
On his turn 2, The Doomscythes arrived in his backfield and shot at the Tfex who took 5 wounds. They wounded a warriors unit with Tesla. His skorpecks on the left flank killed some warriors. The Silent King, scarabs and Skorpecks on the right flank moved onto those 2 objectives and did some actions. C'Tans did some mortals to things from behind their ruin.
On my turn 3, my zoanthropes finally have something to do. 2 units kills some destroyers. My deep striking unit arrived behind a chronomancer (I took assassinate) but the Silent King stopped their power. I finished off the destroyers on the left flank, securing those 2 objectives. The Tfex killed a Doomscythe.
On his turn 3, he wiped out my deep striking zoanthropes and does mortals to my other zoanthropes. My zoans are looking pretty thin but he doesn't want to give me assassinate points so he keeps them back. At this point his Necron secondaries are going to carry the day so I go all in to try and get some points. (This is a team tournament so points matter even if you lose) I almost manage to kill the Deciever but the (please do not swear) passed all his saves in shooting. We finish the game and tally up points.

He won 92 to 67, making the score 14 to 6. So, he played well obviously. I think if I played it again I'd take Banners instead of Assassinate. It's a hard map for it but those C'Tans can do mortals from behind obscuring which is why the list is good into Sisters. It still wouldn't have won me the game but at least I'd get more points. I'm happy with how well I did against Siegler. Out of all his opponents in the tournament, I scored the most against him so yay to that, lol.

Art of War won 89 to 11. Our necron player managed a 15 to 5 loss to Harpster.

Round 3 vs 'Weebhammer 69,000'
These guys were fun. It was a nice rebound match from Art of War.
I paired against Chaos Knights. The Tfex proved his stuff here, slaying 3 wardogs on his own. He had 1 big knight and 11? little knights. I mostly just rolled over him killing 3 or 4 baby knights each turn and saving the big knight for last. I won 20 to 0.
My team won 97 to 3. All of us crushed our games.

Round 4 vs 'Legion'
This was a tough round and a good match. Unfortunately my pairings ended up having our Blood Angels vs Sisters which was a mismatch and he lost 0 to 20. The other 3 games were close games. So I needed a big win to even us out.
My game was against another Tyranids player. He was Leviathan with 2x3 Zoanthropes, 2 Malaceptors, Shardgullet Walkrant, 3 venomthropes, 2 neurothropes, 3 tyrant guard, 2x10 gargoyles, 2x5 warriors, deathleaper.
This mission was Tide of Conviction (dawn of war deployment, 6 objectives placed in weird locations)
I took Banners, Psychic Interrogation and No Prisoners
He took Warp Ritual, Banners, and the Synaptic killing one.
He started off with a big mistake, using the Neuro's synaptic imperative on turn 1 when he was going first. I think his idea was that he's have 5+ FNP against me for my psychic phase so that he could move out aggressively. I didn't take an imperative on turn 1. He threw a Maleceptor up to the middle and gave it catalyst and pushed forward with most of his forces, using ruins where he could.
On my turn 1, I put the Zoanthropes in the upper floor of the ruins and smote the Maleceptor down to 7 wounds. Then the Tfex got 1 wound through and killed it. I moved warriors onto the objectives on my side and stayed behind ruins, putting up banners. I threw 1 unit of Warriors into Gargoyles with Onslaught to make sure they couldn't snipe one of my banners. I gave those warriors Warp Shield and Catalyst to make them annoying. I gave 3d6 cast to my non-warlord Neurothrope and cast Psychic Interrogation on his Neurothrope that was moving towards the middle for Warp Ritual. I succeeded and gained a CP.
Turn 2 imperatives: He takes Warp Shield, I take the Neuro one.
On his turn 2. I'm deep striking Raveners so he spreads his remaining unit of Gargoyles out on the left side. He moves a Maleceptor up to do mortals to one of my Warrior units hiding behind ruins, but I stop most of his casting with +1 to deny and -1 from shadows. He managed to kill 1 Warrior from my aggressive unit in psychic, then finishes them off in melee with his own warriors plus Walkrant.
My turn 2: His 2nd Maleceptor is now exposed enough that my Tfex can move up to some ruins and shoot over them into the Maleceptor. I set up a unit of Warriors to charge the Maleceptor. Raveners arrive 9 from Gargoyles. I Onslaught and send another unit of Warriors into his Warrior that just killed my Warriors (Walkrant used overrun to move back to Tyrant Guard bubble). 2 of my Zoans used the windows in ruins to snipe his Warp Ritual neurothrope, killing it. 1 Zoan unit managed to get LOS of Deathleaper and killed him. My Broodlord used the Horror on the Hive Tyrant, then I used Psychic Interrogation to steal a CP and score more points (+2 to cast and 3d6 cast makes it hard to deny). In shooting, my Tfex managed to get 1 wound thru on the Maleceptor, and rolled a 6 for damage, dealing 10 damage to it. My buffed up Warriors then charged it and completely overkilled it. My other warrior unit charged his warriors and killed some of them but not all. That left 2 units of Warriors in his face to deal with on his turn, keeping him on his back foot. My raveners make their charge into Gargoyles and wipe the unit.
His turn 3: He's pretty screwed at this point. He has to focus all his energy into killing the 8 warriors in his grill. He manages to kill most but not all of them. I then move my Zoanthropes forward and start deleting everything. He got 9 points for the Synaptic secondary, 4 for Warp Ritual and 4 for Banners.
I won 20 to 0.

Our team score was 46 us, 54 them, which in ATC is a tie.

More to come later, need to work.

[zimko]

Round 5 vs 'Legion of Doom' which is a partner team to Legion that we just faced
It was another close round. I did the pairings decently well, giving us 3 solid favorable matchups. Unfortunately our Wrack spam player ended up against a Flayed Ones spam player and that was just a slaughter in favor of the Flayed Ones. So the rest of us had to dig out of a 20 to 0 hole. Our Chaos Knights player pulled out a 9 to 11 loss which is about all we expect from him. So it was up to me, Necrons and Blood Angels to pull the W. Our Blood Angels player won 16 to 4 vs Chaos Knights, and our Necron player won against Tyranids running 3x9 Warriors, Maleceptor and 2x3 Zoans. Necrons won 14 to 6. I'd like to have watched that game but alas I had my own game to play against Grey Knights.

For my game, it was a favorable matchup for me. Grey Knights traditionally have never done well against my lists. He ran 20 Interceptors, Draigo, 10 Paladins, 15 strikes, Librarian, Paladin Banner guy, and another character I don't remember.
Mission: Recover the Relics (Hammer and Anvil deployment, 6 objectives with 3 easily accessible to each player)
For secondaries:
I took Banners, Psychic Interrogation and No Prisoners (max 13)
He took Banners, Psychic Investigation? (the one where you do a psychic action on objectives), and No Prisoners
He went first.
I chose broodlord imperative... didn't really do anything all tournament but I figured if he chose to be super aggressive then he could get some bolter shots off.
GK turn 1, he moves forward onto objectives and does actions. I had my Broodlord forward deployed enough to stop one of the psychic actions, limiting his points earned that turn. In deployment I used the Raveners to deny any gating behind my lines, so he didn't try to teleport to me because all he'd hit was 1 warrior squad IF he made his charge, and then the paladins would crumble to psychic and melee.
Tyranid turn 1, I also move forward and do actions. I launch 1 unit of Warriors with all the buffs at some interceptors on an objective, stealing that objective and removing the banner. I set up Warriors to charge on the following turn. Zoanthropes can't get LOS of anything yet. I give the Broodlord 3d6 to cast and move him within range of the Banner boy who has a LD of 8. I cast Interrogation, he fails to deny, and I get a CP. I have the Venomthropes move with the Broodlord and keep him tucked between them so he's protected. Tfex just moves into a position where he can see a lot of the field but there's too much terrain for him to shoot anything yet.
Turn 2: I switch to Warp Shield
GK turn 2, he scores 8 on primary. He teleports the Paladins to the left flank where my Warriors had decimated his troops, and kills the Warriors. He also moves troops up to that objective. I stop all but 1 of his psychic actions, giving him only 1 point for that secondary. He got 2 for banners and I'm in a prime position to remove another one. So he sends in 5 interceptors to try and kill my Warriors that are ready to pounce. He only kills 2 of them thanks to -1 damage and 5++. In return I kill 5 interceptors thanks to adrenal glands strat.
Tyranid turn 2, I score 8 on primary. I move up a fresh unit of Warriors to the non-Paladin objective and remove that banner. I send my other full unit of Warriors into the troops on his other objective near the Paladins, I kill a unit and use them to ensure the Paladins don't go anywhere. My Tfex shoots into Paladins and kills 1. 2 Zoan units gets LOS of a Strike squad and kills it. Broodlord gets me another 3 VP and a CP with interrogation. My opponent is quickly running out of units, and I could play it safe knowing I'd win... but this is a team tournament and every point counts so I continue to hit the gas.
Turn 3: Neuro imperative
GK turn 3, he scores 4 on primary. His paladins kill my fresh Warriors and tuck themselves behind the ruins on an objective to hide from the Tfex. Draigo and some strikes come to take his other objective back and manage to kill the 4 warriors there. I stop all his psychic actions this time since he could only attempt 2, he has -1 to cast and I have +1 to deny.
Tyranid turn 3, I score 8 on primary. I move 2 Zoans to the upper floor of ruins so that they can only see Draigo, and snipe draigo with 9 mortals. He lives though with FNP so I send in Deathleaper to finish the job. My 3rd unit of Zoans smites the forces on the objective while the Broodlord charges and finishes them off. The paladins are on the other side of the map and completely out of range to do anything useful except sit on their objective.
GK turn 4, he scores 8 on primary. His paladins can't do anything, so he sits on the objective and tries to psychic action but I stop it. His last strike squad kills charges and kills a zoanthrope.
Tyranid turn 4, I score 12. I wipe out the rest of his forces except for the Banner boy and the Paladins. I leave the banner alive so I can interrogate him the rest of the game. I then start plinking away at the Paladins with Zoanthropes to score No Prisoners.
On turn 5 he gets 4 and does his action and fails. His shooting kills a zoanthrope. I pick up a few more Paladins on my turn.
Final score is 92 to 56, which gives me a 17 to 3 win.

Final team score is 56 to 44 which is just barely enough for a Win. (55 to 45 would be a tie)

Round 6 vs Beast Coast
This was a mismatch for a lot of us. They had 3 lists (Sisters, Hyper aggressive Necrons and Ravenwing) that almost none of us felt comfortable going into. I did what I could with pairings but it was rough.
Our Necrons vs Imperial Knights: Necrons won 14 to 6
Our Blood Angels vs Custodes: Blood Angels won 15 to 5
Our Drukhari vs Chaos Knights: Drukhari lost 1 to 19
Our Chaos Knights vs Ravenwing: Knights lost 5 to 15
Me into huyper aggressive Necrons... Let me tell ya, this list blew my mind.
Patrol
- Chronomancer
- 5 Immortals
- 6 skorpekh
- 6 skorpekh
- 2x3 scarabs
Outrider
- Technomancer
- 5 flayed ones
- 5 skorpekh
- 5, 4 and 4 Wraiths
- 3x3 Ophydian Destroyers
Supreme Command
- Silent King

All that stuff is core, he gets a 6" pregame move and he went first. The mission was Death and Zeal (table quarter deployment, 9" from center)
I knew I couldn't win unless I was aggressive because Necron secondaries are just stupid. So I deployed somewhat aggressively hoping for first turn. I didn't get it. He ran over me. Everything essentially got an 18" move and charge and all that stuff just ran over me. After turn 1 I was left with 1 full squad of warriors, a 2man of warrior and a lone warrior plus the Zoanthropes/characters. I used Raveners and Venomthropes to screen but the Venomthropes died to the Silent King's shooting which opened up warriors to be charged. He killed 9 warriors and 6 raveners in the first round and I only killed about 3 destroyers in return. That left 9 wraiths, 9 skorpekhs and 6 ophydians in my face on my turn 1 with no way to score anything. I took No Prisoners so I killed as much as I could but it was a 20 to 0 loss. Turns out, this guy scored more than Siegler did overall. His list is designed for team tournaments and it did well as long as he got favorable matchups.

So that's it. ATC done. Now on to new stuff.

[zimko]

Things I learned:
Tfex as it turns out is actually pretty good. The only game he died in was the last game where I got tabled, but he killed 3 or 4 destroyers before going down. In game 1 he killed a couple tanks, game 2 he killed 2 Doomscythes and held a corner objective, game 3 he killed 3 wardogs that were attempting actions, game 4 he did 8 wounds to a Maleceptor and 10 wounds to another, then killed a Zoanthrope. Game 5 he didn't do much except kill a couple Paladins and forced them to hide all game. Game 6 was a slaughter but he managed a few kills.

Broodlord is a nice tool to have for infiltrating and psychic interrogation. However... the second Neurothrope can do it better if he's in range. Dirgeheart never made a difference. Broodlord also doesn't have Feeder Tendrils so if I want to go for a Cranial Feasting build then maybe I just take 5 Genestealers for mission #11 and utilize something else for Psychic Interrogation.

Zoanthropes are good, but there's matchups where they're not pulling their weight. Spamming them is ok for team tournaments but for a normal tournament I'm thinking 1 or 2 units is fine.

Maleceptor is not worth it anymore. His range is too short and as we saw in the mirror match, he's a liability at 220 points.

Deathleaper does ok. His Alien Cunning rarely mattered though. Perhaps just Lictors instead?

Warriors are good as always in Levi.

Necron and Sister secondaries are dumb.

[zimko]

New list idea. Lets focus on Cranial Feasting, Psychic Interrogation and either Spore Nodes or Banners.

KRAKEN: Battalion
HQ
- Neurothrope: Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm, Resonance Barb - 100
- Tervigon: AGlands, Maw-Claws, Neuroparasite, Heightened Senses - 225
- Winged Hive Tyrant: Warlord, Reaper, AGlands, The Horror, Psychic Scream - 225
Troops
- 30 Termagants - 210
- 10 Termagants - 70
- 5 Warriors: Deathspitters, Boneswords, AGlands - 165
Elites
- 5 Genestealers - 80
- Lictor - 70
- 4 Venomthropes - 140
- 4 Venomthropes - 140
- 3 Zoanthropes: Neuroparasite - 150
Heavy Support
- 1 Biovore - 45
- Tyrannofex - 190
- Tyrannofex - 190

2000 pts and 2 cp

It's pretty straight forward. In general the first turn we're using the Tervigon imperative and launching the 30 termgants into the middle with momma behind them. Establishing early board presence. The Tfexes move up too to get better angles. The lone Biovore can limit some enemy movement with a small investment in points. Warriors, lictor and genestealers can put up banners on turn 1. Venomthropes all advance behind some mid obscuring. Zoanthropes fill any gaps in the synapse chain and smite if possible. Tervigon gets 3d6 to cast and does interrogation while the flyrant does the horror to gain a cp. The Flyrant stays back until turns 2 or 3 for an opportune target. Ensuring that I have imperatives for at least 2 turns. He's here mainly for the big targets that are super resilient. Like Silent King, Gaz or Abbadon.

[N.I.B.]

In an environment without assurance that you can hide the Flyrant, what would you change?

[zimko]

Jul 21, 2022 8:57:17 GMT N.I.B. said:

In an environment without assurance that you can hide the Flyrant, what would you change?

Drop the 5 man warriors to a 3 man, drop the biovore and add Tyrant Guard

[trashcan01]

Venomthropes are the new meta.

[dkng]

Jul 21, 2022 15:01:48 GMT trashcan01 said:

Venomthropes are the new meta.

Their only weakness it lack of ap which Kraken somewhat fixes.

[kinginyellow]

Jul 21, 2022 12:24:42 GMT zimko said:

Jul 21, 2022 8:57:17 GMT N.I.B. said:

In an environment without assurance that you can hide the Flyrant, what would you change?

Drop the 5 man warriors to a 3 man, drop the biovore and add Tyrant Guard

Are the genestealers better than the 2 tyranids + adrenal glands? Cause this 5 warriors seem pretty solid but are substantially weaker at the 90 pts.