2k Levi Major and ATC list, Batrep to follow

[zimko]

I have a 64 person major this weekend, then the ATC team tournament next weekend. Right now, this is my list. It's locked in for the Major this weekend but I could change it by end of day Sunday for ATC.

Battalion: Leviathan
Adaptive Trait: 6" pregame move on Gargoyles
- Swarmlord (Warlord) - 240
- Neurothrope with Synaptic Tendrils (1 CP) - 100
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks - 175
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks - 175
- 5 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks - 175
- 4 Warriors with VC, Deathspitters, Boneswords, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks - 145
- 10 Gargoyles - 80
- 3 Venomthropes - 105
- 3 Tyrant Guard - 120
- 3 Zoans - 150
- Maleceptor - 220
Patrol (2 CP)
- Reaper Flyrant w/ AGlands, Tsacs (1 CP) - 230
- 10 Gargoyles - 80

1995 pts, 2 CP

Powers
Neuro: Catalyst, Onslaught
Swarmy: PScream, Paroxysm
Maleceptor: Neuroparasite, PScream
Zoans: Neuroparasite
Reaper Flyrant: PScream, The Horror

I haven't had time to test this list with the new missions and secondaries except 1 game where it did well scoring 98 points vs Wrack spam.

My go to secondaries are Banners and Psychic Interrogation. After that it's one of the kill secondaries as long as I can score 10 or more points with it.

Originially I had 4 units of 5 warriors, but the terrain at these tournaments includes several obstacles like crates that affect movement so I wanted to get Flesh Hooks on all the Warriors. To do that, I decided to drop 1 warrior and give Toxin Sacs to the Reaper Flyrant.

I went with the Gargoyle pregame move because it helps for Banners, and it helps for that one mission where you only get CP if you control one of the No Mans Lands objectives (number #11, it gets played often).

[Master Chief]

I don't really like the warriors spam, but is just me.

Maybe you could drop one Warrior unit for 5 raveners, that work very well with the Swarmlord.

Or maybe as you have many Synaptic Creatures, you could bring a Sporocyst that tends to be extremely annoying for some armies.

[Master Chief]

I am actually curious about the toxin sacs on the reaper flyrant too, technically that's more or less 1 less roll to wound on his 5 big attacks, so he is lightly better.

But anyway against small things and 5 Marines units or 10 1 wounded man units, doesn't really matter much, and neither against big things, because in that case if you want the mathematical percentage to kill them, you'll go all in with smite, scream, surge and full re roll to wound.

I am curious and I never played that and I would like to hear your experiences, as I never tried the toxin sacs on our reaper boy.

[zimko]

Sure I'll let you know. In my test game against wracks I killed 14 wracks in 1 fight phase with the Reaper so that was cool. (+d3 attacks, exploding 6s from Warrior link)

I'm a big fan of Warriors in Levi. Ravaners are nice and fast but without 2 damage weapons I feel like they just aren't as killy. And they don't benefit from trans-nid, and they're susceptible to morale. 

[dkng]

Those Flesh Hooks on Warriors are there just for the strat or the vertical movement is indeed useful?

[Master Chief]

I just meant I am not a huge fan of multiple warrior units, I prefer a big blob of 9, fully buffed and never dying.

Probably is conditioned by the area I am playing, as sometimes might have a table full of covers, and other times poor.

And as I am lazy, don't want to change list every single time, and to be honest I love how a single unit performs with the Swarmlord.

And you're completely right about the raveners, I was only thinking of their damage output, but didn't think about their resistance and the think they are not fearless.

As you have so many troops, do you really need the Swarmlord? An HVC tyrant wouldn't be better, and in the 20th warrior?

Or maybe is just my OCD, because I hate asymmetric units and I'd rather see 4x5 warriors.

[Master Chief]

Jul 8, 2022 20:53:54 GMT dkng said:

Those Flesh Hooks on Warriors are there just for the strat or the vertical movement is indeed useful?

On units with a -1 to get hit is quite useful.

Specially if you can't re roll to hit.

[piersonsmuppet]

Why not take GS instead of Gargoyles? Both banners equally well, GS forward deploy is a little better in #11, SL can give them Obsec if needed, and you don’t have to take an adaptive which only benefits two units.

In your previous list with 2x Tyrants the Gargs made sense for some extra Obsec, but I think SL opens up GS for the same role. Unsure exactly how you play the Gargs, so there might be small things that matter, but GS opening up +1 to charge or the 1 hit rr for the army might be better (big maybe).

Edit: Flesh hooks are super useful if your tables have a moderate amount of obstacles.

[zimko]

Ok, the Major happened and I placed 5th. So now I can address some of your questions:

Flesh Hooks: These tables have at least 2 sets of 3 crates. The Flesh Hooks let me move through these.
GS vs Gargoyles: It's a consideration, however I think Spore Nodes is actually a good secondary for Gargoyles. There are missions where Banners is just bad, and RND is only 12. Spore Nodes is not that hard to complete sometimes. In my last game against Knights I maxed it with 15 with a single unit of Gargoyles. BUT... I am considering a Broodlord for mission #11 and having an extra psyker for psychic secondaries.

So.... how did this list do? Honestly I am a bit disappointed in my performance. I felt like I played the games to the best of my ability except game 1 but the list just lacked something. I believe that something is a long range threat to keep my opponents honest in their movement/deployment. I'm used to having at least a Shardgullet tyrant to make them afraid. In this list all I have are basic Venom Cannons and Deathspitters.

At the same tournament, another tyranid player was 5 and 0 and placed 2nd. That tyranid player's list was the following:

Battalion: Kraken
HQ
- Neurothrope: Warlord, Resonance Barb, Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxysm
- Tervigon: Adrenal Glands, Paroxysm, Maw-claws, Heightened Senses
- Tyranid Prime: Devourer, Bonesword/lashwhip
Troops
- 30 Termagants
- 10 Termagants
- 5 Warriors: AGlands, TSacs, Devourers, LW/BS
Elites
- Deathleaper
- 4 Venomthropes
- 4 Venomthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
Heavy Support
- Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon, Voracious Ammo
- Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon
- Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon

So this list challenged everything I thought I knew about tyranids. He took Cranial Feasting and Spore Nodes in every game. Then I looked at his matchups and he played against 4 Tyranid Players, lol. I was the only Tyranid player there that didn't play against him. His last match was against the new Chaos codex with abbadon and he won 94 to 71 so the list definitely has legs. More on this later...

So for my games,

Game 1: I lost my first round against Ork Speed Freaks. He had 3 of every type of buggy in the codex, 2 wazbombers, squigboss and 3 bikes. TBH I wasn't playing my A game here and I believe he cheated a bit. He was taking invulnerable saves on turns where he had not waaaghed and I just didn't remember enough about Orks to catch it. The score was 84 to 71 so it was a high scoring loss but still a rough start.

Game 2: Orks Goffs. He had a bunch of stuff on foot and in wagons. It was not a challenging game but with our secondaries being what they are, I still couldn't score max points. I won 90 to 64.

Game 3: Spacewolves. My opponent knew he'd lose going in. Spacewolves are just so bad going into Tyranid Warriors. A unit of 5 warriors can survive a charge, losing about 2 models, and the wipe out a 5 man unit of spacewolves. With trades like that he just can't win. I won 90 to 48. (again, can't max secondaries)

Game 4: My opponent didn't show up for day 2. He had the new Chaos codex stuff so it sucks I didn't get practice.

Game 5: Imperial Knights. This was actually a challenging game, mostly because I had no long range firepower. It was a slog and I lost a lot of models but I won 97 to 83.

Take aways:
- Reaper Flyrant is still a tactical nuke that does his job. But without enough CP I occasionally didn't have enough to overrun. I had to choose between extra attacks or overrun and risking not killing the target. So he ended up being a suicide unit afterall.
- Swarmlord's buffs were handy, even on 5 man Warrior units. But Swarmlord himself was often required to do the psychic secondaries, so he didn't see a lot of action. Whatever he did get into melee with though died. He died against Speed Freaks but survived in all the other games.
- Warriors and Gargoyles are still great. Spore Nodes proved easier to complete than I thought and Banners was a solid choice in half the missions.
- Maleceptor is becoming more and more difficult to use effectively. His synaptic imperative is rarely used, and his damage output is contingent on him getting close enough to effective units. Zoanthropes on the other hand were always effective. So I'm thinking about swapping out Maleceptor for more Zoanthropes.
- Venomthropes continue to be effective.

Now lets talk about that 5 and 0 list. He took Cranial Feasting in every game and scored a lot of points with it. And the key to that is the 2 units of 4 Venomthropes, plus Deathleaper. With Kraken and the Tervigon imperative, those Venomthropes can move 18" and charge with Onslaught. Then they're attacking with 20 attacks, 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound (rerolling 1s with Prime buff) and Ap 2 (Kraken). He uses these guys as sneaky assassins, staying hidden until a character is exposed enough for a sudden 16" move to get to them. They go for characters or units with seargents, then eat their brain to gain a CP and 3 points. Killing the enemy warlord in melee gives you up to 9 victory points. Deathleaper is also here to try for some character kills. Notice he doesn't bother with Alien Cunning because he's not there for objective holding.

The Tervigon is surprisingly deadly with this loadout. Maw Claws gives him 5 or 10 attacks rerolling Wounds. Heightened Senses gives him rerolls to hit and fights first. So he rerolls everything when fighting and has 30 termagants to protect him. With Adrenal Glands, Kraken and his own imperative he's moving 15 to 17 inches on turn 1. He can the use the kraken strat to make the termagants move 16" on turn 1 and give them +1 to hit, Onslaught and reroll 1s to wound if the Prime buffs them. He also usually puts Catalyst on this unit. It's difficult to wipe a full unit like this, especially if some are hidden. And if just 1 survives then you're reviving 2d6+1d3+3 of them, who then go and start a spore node. With the Tervigon's massive move, he can also spawn 10 termagants who can start Spore Node since they'll be within 6" of the enemy deployment zone.

Then of course he has 3 rupterfexes forcing his opponents to hide.

It's an interesting list. I wish he played more than just Tyranids so we could see how it did against Necrons or Space Marines. The winning army was Black Templar.

For myself, I decided to take a different list to ATC. My current list just felt a little too flimsy, and seeing the Rupturefexes perform convinced me to take 1 to keep my opponents honest in their movement (instead of spending CP for shardgullet). I also decided to go heavy into zoanthropes, drop the tyrants, and take a broodlord with dirgeheart and deathleaper with alien cunning. The team tournament is going to be all about scoring points and denying points. Winning your individual game is secondary to points so I figured a dirgeheart Broodlord might be decent at messing with my opponents' scores. Also, all the Warrior units are identical for you OCD folks. Also, taking 2 units of Raveners. I know I just talked about Gargoyles and Spore Nodes but unless I'm going heavy into the gants, I think it's more reliable to do Engage and Banners with Raveners. They're easier to hide and come with free Deep Strike.

Levi Battalion:
HQ
- Broodlord: Dirgeheart, The Horror
- Neurothrope: Warlord, Synaptic Tendrils, Catalyst, Onslaught
- Neurothrope: Neuroparasite, Paroxysm
Troops
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
- 4 Warriors: AGlands, Venom Cannon, Deathspitters, Flesh Hooks
Elites
- Deathleaper: Alien Cunning
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Zoanthropes
- 3 Venomthropes
Fast Attack
- 3 Raveners
- 3 Raveners
Heavy Support
- Rupterfex: Dermic Symbiosis

2000 pts and 3 CP

After this tournament, I'm buying more Venomthropes and going to make my own version of the Cranial list. I think Kraken Venomthropes and Tervigon/Gants has legs. I'm not convinced of 3 Rupturefexes but maybe 2 and a set of Biovores.

[Master Chief]

I noticed that problem in lacking long range fire power time ago and I decided to try the Exocrine.

The exocrine was giving me long range firepower AND anti Marines firepower, just because Marines with Armor of Contempt tend to save the HVCs or VCs shots on a 4+ if they are in cover.

Even compared to a harpy (which is our best unit regarding raw firepower, specially if using the Leviathan re roll) an exocrine has more shots (if we don't count the stinger salvoes that just bounce on AoC in cover), has a better AP and ignores cover.

So basically against Marines (or AoC) an Exocrine is better than a harpy on every single possible factor other than mobility.

Marines are saving Exocrine's shots on a 6+. On the same conditions harpy's shots would have been saved on a 4+.

The exocrine deletes 5 Marines on every shooting phase.

Every single game I played, no matter the opponent, I found some decent targets for the Exocrine and there wasn't a single game in which he didn't condition opponent's movements.

Never been disappointed on spending 200 points on that thing, and adds a lot of versatility to the list.

[zimko]

Have you tried the Rupturefex? Perhaps I'll try 1 of each. I mainly want the high damage shots for threatening really big stuff.

[Master Chief]

Jul 11, 2022 16:09:33 GMT zimko said:

Have you tried the Rupturefex? Perhaps I'll try 1 of each. I mainly want the high damage shots for threatening really big stuff.

As I needed anti AoC firepower didn't even take that it in consideration to be honest.

For threatening big stuff I'd prefer a harpy with 6 shots over a rupturefex with only 3 shots.

3 huge shots are very susceptible to various -1 to hit and invo saves, specially counting that there might be some command re roll available for those failed saves.

The way I see it is better 6 HVC shots over 3 Rupture shots. This considering the 40" movement and the bombing run.

At least, this is my point of view.


For me so far the couple Harpy (2 HVCs and 4++) and Exocrine has done wonders.

The harpy is taking care of vehicles (whenever the harpy doesn't shot them, I'll just finish them with a round of VCs from the warriors), and the Exo is taking care of multi wounded models.

[piersonsmuppet]

Exo is good, but it runs into problems vs -1D and FnPs into 3W models with one or both (Warriors in the mirror). I think if the rest of the list can handle 1-2W models, Rupturefexes offer better target coverage.

I don’t think 1 of each is a bad starting point though.

[Master Chief]

Jul 11, 2022 17:47:10 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Exo is good, but it runs into problems vs -1D and FnPs into 3W models with one or both (Warriors in the mirror). I think if the rest of the list can handle 1-2W models, Rupturefexes offer better target coverage.

I don’t think 1 of each is a bad starting point though.

Everything suffers -1D and FNPs, even a HVC that deals 4 damages per shot...

If you have a -1D and you pass a single FNP, one HVC shot is not enough to kill a warrior.

This without counting warp shielding.

And other than our warriors how many other units in the game have 3 Wounds per model, may have -1D and have access to a fnp5+++?

Warriors are one of the toughest infantries in the game, so maybe are not a good comparison.



And the nids handle very well 1 and 2 wounded models, just not in shooting if those models have AoC.

Being always forced to charge something to eliminate it will expose some units and those units will die in the opponent's counter move.

Plus some units might fight on death or might force you to fight last.



And how can you say that a rupturefex has a better target coverage when it shoots 3 shots.

An exocrine is better against light infantry, is better against heavy infantry, is better against AoCs, is better against invos, and against heavy armoured targets his damage output is very similar to the Rupturefex.



Don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue here, but I just see things differently.

[piersonsmuppet]

Jul 11, 2022 20:09:46 GMT Master Chief said:

And how can you say that a rupturefex has a better target coverage when it shoots 3 shots.

Target coverage doesn't just depend on # of shots, avg 7.5D vs 3D really helps vs harder targets.