Tyranid Points Update and Balance Dataslate

[Master Chief]

Jun 28, 2022 16:15:02 GMT zimko said:

I agree that the core psychic build is still the way to go, even with 220 pt Maleceptor. He's still a power house and difficult to replace.

I think we're on the same page for most of your list except the Warriors, Exocrine and Harpy. I'd rather just take more Warriors than the other 2 but there could be many factors like meta and terrain that factor into it. The terrain here is very good for units of Warriors to hide in and pop out when needed. Meanwhile a Harpy is exposed as soon as it hits the table, and Exocrines can barely draw line of sight on anything useful with all the terrain.

The exo was an experiment against AoCs, and I am very happy about how he performed, not only vs marines. He doesn't care about covers, and he'll be fantastic for keeping an objective on the second lines.

And unlike many people will think, is not that easy to tag in close combat an Exocrine. Usually 3 Zoanthropes and a few more smites or maybe a scream, and your big exocrine blast gun is free to shoot again even if something touched the exocrine in cc.

He will hardly die from shooting and he'll do something useful like keeping an objective, even if an acid spray Tyrannofex is better, for this role wouldn't be good as he's better for pushing towards enemy units.

Think about all those missions with 6 objs, he'll keep one alone.

He will always find a target to shoot at, and in the rare case I am playing on a table were he won't find targets, is that thing going to benefit more the opponent, or me with 2 tyrants (one of them a dealer Flyrant dancing in between buildings, taking one unit at the time and remaining unpunished) a huge unit of warriors, and a harpy that can target everything she wants? 



About the harpy, honestly is one of my main units. You don't always have to slingshot it towards the enemy to use the bombs. You're endangering the harpy for inflicting few MWs on an infantry unit... Is not worth it.

Most of the times I use the Harpy as a gunship, and having 5 turns of Leviathan HVCs in da face is not nice for anyone, that's pretty much 30 shots with 5 re rolls. Many armies cannot deal with it if you don't get too close.

We're still talking about something with a -1 to be hit, 3+/4++ and possible transhuman 4+. And a few times I also used the stratagem to regain wounds o  her, to ,leave the last bracket and hit on a 4+ with that huge mobile firepower. 



About the warriors I prefer the single man unit, as this is the idea of my list, in synergy with the rest.

Many tough units to deal with.

Usually the first 2 turns I am hunting for your anti monster fire or for your mobility, and then you just won't be able to deal with that amount of monsters or tough units, and during T4 or T5 you just won't have the means to deal with flyrants and similars.



Of course the opponent will take some units, but has to spend resources (units, CPs and other stuff) and not without consequences. 

There is a "not so sublte" synergy in the list.

I am not saying is the best possible strategy, but it works for me and I find it very funny to play.

[Master Chief]

Jun 28, 2022 18:36:45 GMT nameless said:

Ah, that was you.

So you use the point and dataslate changes, but not the new missions I suppose.

That's similar to lists I was considering post changes. I think the swarmlord makes a lot of sense and I'm not sure about the exo but I've been wanting to give it a shot.

With those changes, you're sitting on:
-2 patrol
-1 relic: Reaper
-1 WL: 5FNP
-1 relic: Barb
-1 WL: Tendrils

I think you could easily drop the barb to start with 1 cp. I do think you want to keep the 5FNP so you can put cat somewhere else.

Well, it was not me...

The TO decided to use the points as were available for everyone, but not the missions as Nephilim is hard to get.

For Nephilim my list won't change Much:

-2 CP for 2nd Patrol

-1 CP for synaptic tendrils 

-1 CP for Reaper

Starting at 2 CPs and Swarmlord as my WL instead of the Claw Maws, as he is the most violent thing I can bring without spending any CPs.

[Master Chief]

Jun 28, 2022 19:15:08 GMT kazetanade said:

You guys sleeping on SL and Gaunts/Gants. The Swarm Lord literally make the Swarm units ace.

At the same time, he can also make that unit of TG hit like a brick AND steal your objective. Or make that unit of Zoeys steal your objective.

Then, if you wait roo long and get into combat with him... well, let's just say he's a genuine threat now.

Leviathan is a poor fleet that's super crutch for a faction that uses MCs - if you want to Levi, you want 18 warriors at least with 2 or 3 Zoey units to really abuse the transNids and bully out with obsec and MW damage.

TG aren't tax man. They pull weight. Just don't give them swords.

To be honest I like a lot the standard scythes and rending claws.

A 3 man unit is something like 18 attacks, which in close combat is not that bad and they are beating stuff quite decently.

They might not be the most Power CC unit in the game, but people keep forgetting that this is not their role.

[kazetanade]

Jun 28, 2022 19:42:46 GMT Jbizzy said:

Jun 28, 2022 19:15:08 GMT kazetanade said:

You guys sleeping on SL and Gaunts/Gants. The Swarm Lord literally make the Swarm units ace.

At the same time, he can also make that unit of TG hit like a brick AND steal your objective. Or make that unit of Zoeys steal your objective.

Then, if you wait roo long and get into combat with him... well, let's just say he's a genuine threat now.

Leviathan is a poor fleet that's super crutch for a faction that uses MCs - if you want to Levi, you want 18 warriors at least with 2 or 3 Zoey units to really abuse the transNids and bully out with obsec and MW damage.

TG aren't tax man. They pull weight. Just don't give them swords.

What TG weapons do you recommend instead of swords? Just the base rending claw/scything talons? I love the look and damage of the crushing claws but 20 ppm is pricey.

Bruv I've only run 1 test game, with Gorgon, and I can tell you that anything not AoC hates 18A rerolling S6 ap-1 that is also obsec. Then they will sweat when these guys are T6 4W terminators with their own version of AoC - basically enemy is forced to charge them to try and kill them. If you ran a unit of 5? D-d-d-dominating! And for good measure, if I needed to kill something with AoC, I can just tag them with MW spell to church more damage.

But as Kraken, MidNids are way better, and you can consider the sword in Kraken, if youre not gonna run a lot of warriors.

[Master Chief]

Kraken I'd run a lot of raveners, with the Swarmlord to fully buff them, giving them full re rolls on shooting and close combat and obsec.

That way you can really benefit from the Swarmlord's buffs, and also from Kraken's opportunistic advance.

[hiveoverall]

Jun 29, 2022 2:20:57 GMT Master Chief said:

Jun 28, 2022 18:36:45 GMT nameless said:

Ah, that was you.

So you use the point and dataslate changes, but not the new missions I suppose.

That's similar to lists I was considering post changes. I think the swarmlord makes a lot of sense and I'm not sure about the exo but I've been wanting to give it a shot.

With those changes, you're sitting on:
-2 patrol
-1 relic: Reaper
-1 WL: 5FNP
-1 relic: Barb
-1 WL: Tendrils

I think you could easily drop the barb to start with 1 cp. I do think you want to keep the 5FNP so you can put cat somewhere else.

Well, it was not me...

The TO decided to use the points as were available for everyone, but not the missions as Nephilim is hard to get.

For Nephilim my list won't change Much:

-2 CP for 2nd Patrol

-1 CP for synaptic tendrils 

-1 CP for Reaper

Starting at 2 CPs and Swarmlord as my WL instead of the Claw Maws, as he is the most violent thing I can bring without spending any CPs.

What secondary missions do you think you will be "bankin on" when Nephilim hits you area (cause secondaries depend on the opponent oc) ? "Synpase kills" one ? Or is it a trap ?

On a another note, I was thinking maybe maleceptor aint worth it now, perhaps more than 3 zoeys is best, then I was like "maleceptor = 4 zoeys + 20 pts"... So yeah, Male is still worth it even with all the nerfs I guess !

[N.I.B.]

The Art of War guys thinks Tyranids got the worst faction specific secondary Nephilim missions in the game. They think we now have to take the generic missions and bank on tabling the opponent and trying to score after that. Nids missions are like, max 8 points.

[Master Chief]

Jun 29, 2022 10:04:12 GMT N.I.B. said:

The Art of War guys thinks Tyranids got the worst faction specific secondary Nephilim missions in the game. They think we now have to take the generic missions and bank on tabling the opponent and trying to score after that. Nids missions are like, max 8 points.

I agree, I don't really like nids missions either.

I'd go for the generic ones, Interrogation, banners, grind them down, no Prisoners and others.

But I don't have yet Nephilim, so I don't really know how the missions changed other than no more Stranglehold and TTL, and the Interrogation might give you CPs.

[piersonsmuppet]

Spore Nodes can be our best if you build to it. Warrior heavy lists w/ 2x Tyrants aren’t going to be able to score it well though.

[hiveoverall]

Jun 28, 2022 14:55:14 GMT Master Chief said:

To be honest the only opponent I didn't have any clue on how to face him was the guy who won the tournament and had Sisters.

But not because he won, but because I don't know Sisters at all and haven't got any clue about any of their rules...

According to AoWar, Sisters is the only current S tier army

[piersonsmuppet]

Jun 29, 2022 12:49:36 GMT hiveoverall said:

According to AoWar, Sisters is the only current S tier army

Being able to dynamically change sacred rites per match probably helps in that regard… /sour.

[dkng]

Jun 29, 2022 14:34:31 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Jun 29, 2022 12:49:36 GMT hiveoverall said:

According to AoWar, Sisters is the only current S tier army

Being able to dynamically change sacred rites per match probably helps in that regard… /sour.

Sour and salty

[Master Chief]

Jun 29, 2022 12:02:09 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Spore Nodes can be our best if you build to it. Warrior heavy lists w/ 2x Tyrants aren’t going to be able to score it well though.

I wouldn't like to play like that.

To be honest I prefer my list to something good for the nodes.

In the end the list is tough, has a very good Psychic phase, a good shooting phase and a good melee phase.

I can pretty much adapt the play style according to the opponent faced.

This is cool and is very very Leviathan.



Plus I think that the reaper flyrant is mandatory as is the only thing that really gives us an edge against other armies.

And as he shouldn't really be the WL, we will see many lists with Reaper + another tyrant, or Reaper + Swarmlord.

Tyrants are just too good to be left at home.

[hiveoverall]

Are 3 tyrant guards really enough though ? Seeing how pricy tyrants are now, don't we want 4 rather ? 5 seems impossible to fit in a list.  Also as MChief (I think) said, Swarmy can make them full reroll and they then can become an actual threat, OR/AND make them obsec.
But really wont we rather want to have 16 ablative wounds for our tyrant duo over just 12 ?

[zimko]

Tyrant Guard should be sitting somewhere out of LOS anyway so having 3 or 5 doesn't make a difference to them doing their job. Having 5 may just make them harder to hide.