2 questions regarding sporocyst

[mrdodo]

Hey Hive,

Had a game yesterday with the new nid codex. First of all, it rocks and the poor sisters decided to retreat with the few models they had left after turn 2. Second it takes a lot more brainpower now with all the different things we need to do at the start of rounds, command phase, phases, etc. But thats not a bad thing

Two things came up and I wanted to check with you guys:

1.  Sporocyst have a base and since you measure from hull only if something doesnt have a base as far as I know. My opponent said that fortifications always measure from model, not from base. I didn't want to argue during the game, but I can't find anything about that in the rulebook. Did I miss something?

2.  I thought in our old codex sporocyst could be deployed within 3'' of a terrainpiece, at least I thought I remembered a few discussions on this forum which said that was the case. Again I can't find what backs this rule up. So can it be deployed within 3'' or does it have to follow the normal rules with placing an fortification? (seems like webway gate has the same rule about placing it)

thanks in advance! 

[dkng]

1) To make things easier I would personally measure from the hull just like with any other fortification. Didnt find any rule for this case so it is best to discuss and agree with your opponent.
2) The rules for the Cyst dont specify you can set it up within 3”, they say „anywhere on the battlefield” to enable deployment outside your dep zone.

[purestrain]

Apr 22, 2022 15:42:01 GMT dkng said:

1) To make things easier I would personally measure from the hull just like with any other fortification. Didnt find any rule for this case so it is best to discuss and agree with your opponent.
2) The rules for the Cyst dont specify you can set it up within 3”, they say „anywhere on the battlefield” to enable deployment outside your dep zone.

The rules for fortifications are you aren't allowed to set them up within 3" of terrain Unless otherwise stated, when setting Fortifications up on the battlefield, they cannot be set up within 3" of any other terrain feature that is not part of its own datasheet (excluding hills)"

Sporocyst have the Bombardment Organism rule, which states: During deployment, when you set up this model, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 12" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

RAW Bombardment Organism overrides the fortification rule.

[bigpig]

Apr 22, 2022 18:14:01 GMT purestrain said:

Apr 22, 2022 15:42:01 GMT dkng said:

1) To make things easier I would personally measure from the hull just like with any other fortification. Didnt find any rule for this case so it is best to discuss and agree with your opponent.
2) The rules for the Cyst dont specify you can set it up within 3”, they say „anywhere on the battlefield” to enable deployment outside your dep zone.

The rules for fortifications are you aren't allowed to set them up within 3" of terrain Unless otherwise stated, when setting Fortifications up on the battlefield, they cannot be set up within 3" of any other terrain feature that is not part of its own datasheet (excluding hills)"

Sporocyst have the Bombardment Organism rule, which states: During deployment, when you set up this model, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 12" away from the enemy deployment zone and any enemy models.

RAW Bombardment Organism overrides the fortification rule.

The wording of the rules for "anywhere on the battlefield" does override the fortification restriction. As further evidence, it was ruled this way at the most recent LVO (not that private events write the official rules, but GW was there with a big representation). Its a playability thing too; If you couldn't do so then the Sporocyst would be pretty unable to drop and deploy as intended. Also, even though it takes a fort slot, it is entirely different than most other fortifications in the game so it makes sense

[dkng]

I’ve searched for the answer and all I found was people arguing in an ever more uncivilised ways. I’m not gonna try to prove my interpretation is better than anyone’s else. Thank you very much.

[bigpig]

Sadly it kind of comes down to that, arguing, until GW decides to up their game. One can make an argument either way.

To the OP, I assume you want to use one and recognize they don’t work at all unless you can drop within 3 of terrain. To that end If it is a competitive tournament thing I’d say check with you TO/organizer and point out the LVO ruling as support being respectful of the fact that ITC is not GW canon. I’ll include the text of my email to the head judge to help frame your point at the end.

If it’s a friendly fun game, just ask your opponent to stop being difficult and let you play this mediocre unit the way it’s intended. The alternative is for you to play more of the high power stuff in the dex. I mean, would he/she really rather face another hvc carnifex instead ? Immobile sporocysts in No-man’s land give the opponent stuff to slingshot off and hostage. Spore rules are weaker in this book.

Text below. Note slight differences in some of wording for distance from enemy units but otherwise the same.

“Greetings. I'm hoping to run Sporocysts in a matched play Crusher Stampede list, but need some clarification on the rules and interactions of Sporocysts as units with the Fortification Role.

The spororcyst's Bombardment Organism rules allow it to deploy before the start of first turn "anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from enemy models." Does this fall under the "unless otherwise stated" rider on deployment restrictions for units with the fortifications battlefield role and allow it to be set up within 3" of a terrain feature such as a ruin or forest? Note also that the Sporocyst itself is a monster, and does not have the terrain or building keyword possibly giving it more freedom from 9th edition fortification deployment restrictions..

If they can't then they are pretty much unable to deploy using bombardment organism and function effectively as forward synapse nodes as they would require a 10.1" open diameter circle free of terrain (which is hard to come by in properly set up battlefield, much less being able to deploy in a useful position). I get that its an older edition codex, but it isn't clear how its meshing with the new edition fortification rules to be able to deploy as intended in the original codex.

Thanks in advance “

Let us know how they work if you get to give them a run.

[purestrain]

You actually cant make an argument both ways, if the opponent thinks they can, they clearly dont understand what the words "Unless otherwise stated" means. or are just being That Guy.

[mrdodo]

Thank you for your answers!

I will for the next tournament ask the TO to be sure, but I lean towards allowing it within 3'' and if not that then at least measuring the 3'' from the base. In worst case I just have to model one with the tentacles up instead of out.

For Bigpig: I played 2 games now bringing 1 sporocyst and they were great both, but I go all in with the mines, bringing sporocyst, 3 biovores and 2 harpies. that is 18 spore mines per round average. I deploy them just to "block" lines for enemy moving (I know they don't acutally moveblock but the mortal wounds stop from making it an easy choice). I deploy the sporocyst close to my lines cause I only need it to be able to be within 18'' of an objective I want to protect and at that position its a nice middle man for bouncing the synaptic imperative. In my last game I put 3 groups of 6 on the 2 lines a enemy flyer could logicaly go. It took 7 mortal wounds and dropped from top bracket to bottom bracket in its own turn before shooting.

In my opinion the new spore rules are great (except that you can't charge with them anymore, but oh well with fly/advancing they got pretty good movement) but I rather not tell everyone how good mines are cause thye might get nerved even more if everyone is going to play them

[bigpig]

Cool, thanks MrD. I do see the more subtle advantage of them increasing Synaptic link range. Let us know how they work in the event

[N.I.B.]

Apr 23, 2022 11:02:54 GMT mrdodo said:

I played 2 games now bringing 1 sporocyst and they were great both, but I go all in with the mines, bringing sporocyst, 3 biovores and 2 harpies.

What Hive Fleet? Kraken seems like a good fit for mines, D3+3" advance. Also what does your list look like to combo well with mine spam - shooty? CC? Psychic heavy?

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Apr 24, 2022 19:01:30 GMT N.I.B. said:

Apr 23, 2022 11:02:54 GMT mrdodo said:

I played 2 games now bringing 1 sporocyst and they were great both, but I go all in with the mines, bringing sporocyst, 3 biovores and 2 harpies.

What Hive Fleet? Kraken seems like a good fit for mines, D3+3" advance. Also what does your list look like to combo well with mine spam - shooty? CC? Psychic heavy?

Generated mines are not part of a detachment so they won't get hive fleet traits.

[N.I.B.]

* sad spore mine noises *

[Bohxim]

Apr 24, 2022 21:08:50 GMT N.I.B. said:

* sad spore mine noises *

Like "ka-booo-ey"?

[dkng]

Apr 24, 2022 22:05:53 GMT Bohxim said:

Apr 24, 2022 21:08:50 GMT N.I.B. said:

* sad spore mine noises *

Like "ka-booo-ey"?

More like "ka-booo-meeeh"