Kronos Pyrovores

[dkng]

Was googling this for a while but cant find an answer.
If you take Kronos you can have better AP at half range. So Pyro’s spurt goes to -3 ap at 8”. How does it work with overwatch? You get the better ap if the enemy starts the charge within 8” right? Or wrong?

[bigbadbalou]

Seem's right to me. You are making a ranged attack at half range, so the -1 AP applies. And since you make the overwatch before the charge, you count the initial position before the charge.

You could also use the Pyrogout weapond profile instead to get twice the number of shots and up to 11' with the -1 AP, but it would really depend on what is charging you I guess. But I can't see why Kronos adaptation wouldn't work.

I can see some complication if the unit charging you has some model less than 8' from yours and some more than 8' away. Which i guess would lead to the charging player having to choose if he removes the closest models first (hence needing a longer charge) or removing the models below 8' range so the other models get better armor save (outside of the -1 AP range).

[bigpig]

correct. Measure range and line of sight from where the unit begins the charge

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Apr 20, 2022 17:29:01 GMT bigbadbalou said:

Seem's right to me. You are making a ranged attack at half range, so the -1 AP applies. And since you make the overwatch before the charge, you count the initial position before the charge.

You could also use the Pyrogout weapond profile instead to get twice the number of shots and up to 11' with the -1 AP, but it would really depend on what is charging you I guess. But I can't see why Kronos adaptation wouldn't work.

I can see some complication if the unit charging you has some model less than 8' from yours and some more than 8' away. Which i guess would lead to the charging player having to choose if he removes the closest models first (hence needing a longer charge) or removing the models below 8' range so the other models get better armor save (outside of the -1 AP range).

The unit is within half range for the some in some our case. Personally, if I was the charging player, I'd play it as "at time of targeting" just to speed things up.

[dkng]

Apr 20, 2022 17:29:01 GMT bigbadbalou said:

I can see some complication if the unit charging you has some model less than 8' from yours and some more than 8' away. Which i guess would lead to the charging player having to choose if he removes the closest models first (hence needing a longer charge) or removing the models below 8' range so the other models get better armor save (outside of the -1 AP range).

Is it even possible? I know that when a unit has different defensive capabilities of models (some in cover or some have better save than others) the „defender” can allocate hits to chosen models but in this case does it matter which model is in bonus -ap range? Isnt it like if at least one model is within bonus range then the whole unit is hit with the bonus?

[bigbadbalou]

Well.. maybe I'm not right about it. Someone else could confirm maybe?

But the way I see it, the "to hit" and "to wound" roll would not be different in all cases. So that part could be fast rolled all together without thinking too much about it... But technically, all the auto hit and wound roll are done one at a time for each attack (but fast rolling is way easier when possible). So if we hit, wound and allocated one attack at a time, that would leave the defending player to chose which model to select one attack after the other. In the rare case where the defending player would have, for example, only 1 model within 8", and the other within 9". He could chose to select that model which would be easier to kill and make the charge longer, but leaves all the other models affected with the other attacks with a better save. Mainly because you do the attacks one after the other, so the subsequent attacks would have had to target a unit not within 8'. Inversely, if the defending player do not want to make the charge longer, he could allocate the wound to another model in the unit. In which case, all the subsequent attack would be with the bonus since the defending unit is always within 8' range...

I do think it's still a rare case. And anyway, more often then not, people tends to remove the farthest models first to keep a shorter charge and have better chance to make it. It could come up more often I guess with normal attack. But I think it makes sense.

[piersonsmuppet]

No, Kronos grants the additional AP once the attack is made. The opponent would have to ask you to individually roll each attack sequence separately to possibly nullify the Kronos adaptive trait.

[LordPathos]

I would think it depends on if the wording was units within half range or models within half range.

If its units, then you measure when the the charge and overwatch are declared. And that will be the instance for the whole case.

If its models, then it would be have to be on a per model basis.

And hopefully there are no "wholly within" shenanigans.

[TheDeepestShadow]

The ability just says "...makes a ranged attack that targets a unit within half range" so I'm pretty sure you just do it based off the closest model in the unit, no need for rolling on a per-enemy-model basis.

[piersonsmuppet]

Making an attack starts with the hit roll, not declaring targets. You don't have to slow roll it, no benefit for you to since it says "unit", but the opponent can ask that you slow roll. I could see opponents doing it if it will make a big impact on the OW, like if only 1 model was w/in 11".

[bigbadbalou]

No LordPathos, there is no "wholly within" in the rule . Its only "within half-range". So as long as there is a model in the unit that is half-range, the bonus would applies to the attack.

And Pierson, the bonus is granted when an attack is made, not when shooting with the weapon. So in this case, it's 1d6 attacks total. Each attacks is individual. Like you said, one way to do it correctly would be for the opponent to ask to roll each attack one after the other, but there is other ways to fast roll it to a maximum.

Personally, I would just fast roll all the hits, then fast roll all the wounds rolls (since those 2 are not affected by kronos's bonus). After that, I would just ask my opponent to allocate each wounds one after the other only if he intend to remove the closest models first (or all the ones within 8'). And as long as the enemy unit is within 8', the bonus would applies to each wound. But when no more model of that unit is within 8', the bonus would stop being applied to the rest of the attacks.

Like I said, that would not impact much for the overwatch perspective of things I think (as most people, when getting shot by overwatch, remove the farthest models to keep the shortest charge range). That would come up more in cases of units the pyrovore are shooting and are intending to charge after the shooting phase. Although I would not expect it to happens a lot...