Good broodlord list for 9th edition

[darkstar143]

I really want to run the broodlord and genestealers in a 1500 or 2000 list but I’m not really sure where to start? Any advice would be great especially with all the new rules coming out.

[purestrain]

There are 3 steps to that.

1. Take broodlord and genestealers into your hands

2. Put them on a shelf

3. Play with a Walking hive Tyrant and Hormagaunts

[trashcan01]

What purestrain said.
Basically what happened in this edition is that some of the very often played models (like Genestealers and Hive Guard) are now either over-costed or underperform compared to the rest of the Codex.

Yes, you can field Genestealers (that are not even Troops now) but they are expensive in points, and limited to max 10 models, meaning that they probably won't survive to use infestation nodes. The main issue is that they've lost their advance and charge ability, which was the main reason people used them.
Broodlord, on the other hand, no longer provides the Genestealer Aura, and his Synaptic Link and Imperatives are among the weaker in the Codex.

Genestealers + Broodlord can be used as Vanguard predator deployment, but it is a very risky play. If you go first you're okay in most cases, if you're second say goodbye to few hundred points. I don't know about you, but I don't like games being decided turn 0.

Once you start making lists and compare the table presence, influence on the game and the point costs you will go back to the 1-2-3 steps stated in the post above.

[darkstar143]

Apr 10, 2022 4:58:10 GMT purestrain said:

There are 3 steps to that.

1. Take broodlord and genestealers into your hands

2. Put them on a shelf

3. Play with a Walking hive Tyrant and Hormagaunts

. Guess I’ll just use them as display

[darkstar143]

Apr 10, 2022 5:42:40 GMT trashcan01 said:

What purestrain said.
Basically what happened in this edition is that some of the very often played models (like Genestealers and Hive Guard) are now either over-costed or underperform compared to the rest of the Codex.

Yes, you can field Genestealers (that are not even Troops now) but they are expensive in points, and limited to max 10 models, meaning that they probably won't survive to use infestation nodes. The main issue is that they've lost their advance and charge ability, which was the main reason people used them.
Broodlord, on the other hand, no longer provides the Genestealer Aura, and his Synaptic Link and Imperatives are among the weaker in the Codex.

Genestealers + Broodlord can be used as Vanguard predator deployment, but it is a very risky play. If you go first you're okay in most cases, if you're second say goodbye to few hundred points. I don't know about you, but I don't like games being decided turn 0.

Once you start making lists and compare the table presence, influence on the game and the point costs you will go back to the 1-2-3 steps stated in the post above.

. Seems like a really big nerd for a very often played unit cause I’ve seen the broodlord used a lot when the swarm lord slinky strategy was a thing

[trashcan01]

If you stay with the Tyranids for the long run, you will get a chance to field them eventually in the following editions. Bad units become good, good units become bad...and sometimes bad units stay bad.
I'm guessing that meta-jumping people will trying to get rid of Genestealers and Broodlords, so you could get the 2nd hand ones for reasonable price if you love the models.

[N.I.B.]

I don't think we should discard units without playing a single game with them, at least Genestealers provides a unique tech for us in the forward deploy.

No Broodlords, but stormcoil has hade some success with stealers:

BATTALION - behemoth

Winged Hive Tyrant, Lashwhip + Bonesword, Reaper of Obliterax, Adaptive Biology, catalyst, onslaught, warlord

Trygon Prime, adrenal glands, toxin sacs, Heightened Senses, The Passenger

5x warrior, dual bonesword, deathspitters, adrenal glands, toxin sacs

5x warrior, dual bonesword, deathspitters, adrenal glands, toxin sacs

10x hormagant

10x hormagant

10x genestealers, extended carapace

10x genestealers, extended carapace

10x genestealers, extended carapace

Deathleaper

3x zoanthropes, neuroparasite

Harpy, 2 Heavy Venom Cannons, dermic symbiosis

Tyranocite, deathspitters

Tyranocite, deathspitters


Tyranids List Analysis ("Behemoth Bash"): I have made no secret that I think this new Tyranid book is slower than the last one. That said there are still ways to make a melee build work in my opinion. There are several pieces that I combine to make this list work. It has been nicknamed the "Behemoth Bash" in my group. I lost with different versions of this list early when I was trying to use other units, but once I settled on the mix of units I'm using today it has done very well.


First off, as the nickname indicates, I take hive fleet behemoth. Behemoth's main power is to give my army +1 strength, and the secondary effect is to reroll all charges. That is already great, but Behemoth also has access to Lurk and Hunt biomorphs. Out of Hunt, +1 to charge for my whole army is very good, although a bit of a toss up with reroll charges. I like the +1 to charge if I will only be making a few quality charges a turn, but if my whole army is going to be charging I like the rerolls. And then almost everything in the Lurk tree is great depending on what opponent you will be facing (more on that later).


So I think to make a melee army work you need to be able to apply pressure early so that you don't get picked apart crossing no man's land against a gunline. It took me a while to start using this combo, but I've found the best way around this is drop pods with a large warrior blob and a lictor or deathleaper. The warriors have our best output per point but are very squishy and so it make sense to pay to deliver them straight into combat. Because they are also synapse creatures with guns, they can shoot their target and then use shard lure to give charging on 3d6 take the 2 highest. Adding a lictor/deathleaper to this combo allows you to charge with the lictor first and give the rest of your army an additional +2 to charge.


The pods are good in almost every style of list so the real question is do you bring 1 or 2 pods? This list starts with two pods. One has 5 warriors and deathleaper, the other pod just has 5 warriors. This gives me the ability to pressure my opponent early. The warriors have several pieces of gear that help them work. Adrenal glands give them more movement and strength, so they hit at strength 9, and also let me give the whole unit +1 attack. Toxin sacs are an important counter to all of the transhuman abilities in the game, and work well with the 25 attacks the unit puts out.


The second part of this list is 30 genestealers. Now I have been very critical of genestealers in 9th edition with their old rules. I thought that s4 was too low, I thought they died too fast to small fire, and I thought they couldn't win fights against other melee units. However I have found that behemoth solves all the problems I had with them. The most important one is the +1 strength. With 4 attacks at s5 I think stealers finally threaten enough targets. The second part is that extended carapace no longer comes with a major downside. This means for an extra point per model you can have a 3+ armor save in cover, which helps against the second main weakness of stealers, that they would die in droves to garbage fire. Because behemoth has access to the lurk biomorphs, I can get an extra armor save in cover, meaning my warriors and genestealers can have a respectable 2+ armor in cover.


Finally, the improvement of the invuln save to a 4+ in hand to hand means that stealers can actually hang in against other melee units that they will probably be fighting. The infiltration deployment can be very good for early board control. I do not use stealers for turn 1 charges as I normally play them back, but they do usually charge on turn 2. So, in behemoth with extended carapace I can get 4 s5 high ap attacks per model, with a 2+/5++ in cover, that is the tyranids best infiltration unit for early board control. I think that ends up being a pretty good deal, but only in this one hive fleet.


The last part of fleshing out the list are a number of great all around units. A flyrant with reaper and a trygon prime with the passenger start in deep strike so they can join my pods and warriors in a second wave with the stealers. One harpy with dermic gives me a single tough flyer to cause problems. A minimum unit of zoanthropes can give my army an invuln save for a turn. And two units of hormagants are fast units that are great action monkeys or can help the stealers with running down small enemy scoring units.


What I haven't taken is also important, and all of the following units were included in less successful versions of this list. Most importantly I don't have a malceptor. It is too slow and its power is too short range to support the rest of my list and the pressure playstyle. I also don't have any screamer killers. Again I find them too slow for this type of list. I would also never put a s/k in a pod as that almost doubles the cost, and 5-6 warriors put out a lot more damage than a screamer killer so take priority for pod space. The Swarmlord also has the same problems. His 9 attacks in combat can't compete with the 25-30 attacks a cheaper unit of warriors puts out, so it is hard to justify him in a pod. But then he is also too slow to just walk up the board to join the fighting. Finally, the swarmlord would require a second detachment and then that starts to eat into my cp, especially as I'm taking so many elites my second detachment would have to be a vanguard.


Put together you have a list with good screening and board presence from the stealers. You are especially strong going first with almost guaranteed charges out of your pods. If your opponent has cheap screens, you clear them turn 1 with your stealers and drop in your pods and tyrant/trygon turn 2. If your opponent doesn't have cheap screens, you drop in your pods turn 1, and then follow up with stealers and tyrant/trygon on turn 2. Either way your opponent is going to be swarmed in hard hitting 'nids right out of the gate from all angles, and with luck that gives you the momentum to win the match.

[dkng]

Biggest issue with the Broodlord is that it is best used with Stealers - same movement, similar weapon profile (anti heavy infantry). But... his buffs are not tailored for the Stealers. Increasing AP on 6’s is not useful for guys already swinging at -3. It is good for Horms or a Mawloc. The Light Cover SI can be huge against dakka armies but it is in strong competition with the more useful and general SI of Zoans. Also S5 is a tad weak - c’mon that’s the same value as a mere Warrior. And even with 7W and 4++ having only T5 will get him blown off the table quite quickly.
As for the Stealers themselves - a 5 strong unit with forward deployment can be useful if you can place them behind LoS terrain but 1W T4 and 5++ they’ll just evaporate as soon as anyone finds an angle to shoot them. The Infestation Node is stoopid, expensive and not really useable.

Btw did you guys notice the sillyness of the Flesh Hooks option? 1 in 4 can have those but only the equipped model can use them for movement. Stealers deployed behind a solid wall, able to hop over it to charge would be awesome but as the wording goes you can't really do that. Another nail do the coffin.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Broodlord can also be used as a cheapish counter charging HQ threat with some psychic powers built in. I think it's more useful in lower points games as units will be smaller so it's more likely to wipe them out.

I think genestealers can be used well for early disruption tactics and scoring engage on all fronts turn 1.

[icetyrant]

A real shame the BLs Synaptic Imperative wasn't advance and charge.

[trashcan01]

Apr 10, 2022 15:04:02 GMT icetyrant said:

A real shame the BLs Synaptic Imperative wasn't advance and charge.

Or at least that he had Synaptic Link for Genestealers only that gave them advance + charge; similar how the Tervigon has +1hit for Termagants.

[piersonsmuppet]

They work well in Behemoth, S5 with the option for +1 to-wound makes them fairly deadly to T4/5 and decent at clean-up for T6+. They also have some potential in Gorgon (wounding on 4+ and the mortals on 6's) and Hydra (rr hits and 1CP rr wounds). They aren't very good in other hive fleets, so I'd look to playing the three mentioned if you want to put them on the table.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

My brain: what about kraken for genestealers? Better advances wouldn't hurt.

3 seconds later... Right, they lost advance and charge.

It's going to be interesting forgetting all I know and relearning it

[forthehive]

I thought maybe ud try broodlord can do T1 warp ritual, and genestealers T1 RND. After that any else is a bonus.