Psychic Overload vs Daughters of the Abyss

[N.I.B.]

Psychic Overload: Each time this model successfully manifests a psychic power or completes a psychic action, if the result of the Psychic test was 7 or more, after resolving that psychic power, the closest enemy unit within 12" suffers the number of mortal wounds shown in the table below.

DAUGHTERS OF THE ABYSS

This unit cannot be targeted or affected by psychic powers.
Each time a Psychic test is taken for a unit, subtract 1 from the total for each unit with this ability within 18" of that unit (to a maximum of -3).
Each time an attack made by a model in this unit targets an enemy PSYKER or DAEMON unit within 6" of it, add 1 to that attack’s wound roll.

I guess it comes down to; is Psychic Overload a 'psychic power'?

Discuss.

[yoritomo]

We have to ask two questions. First is does it target? Second is Psychic Overload a psychic power?

The first question is easy, no it does not target a unit. It simply states the closest unit. Since you don’t have a choice you can’t choose a target which means it doesn’t target.

The second question is a little more difficult, but the answer is still no. A psychic power is defined as having a warp charge value. Psychic Overload does not have a warp charge value so it cannot be a psychic power. As such it is just an ability and can effect the daughters.

[LordPathos]

Sisters of Silence screening other units to protect them from mortal wounds? Not today!

[beetlejuice]

Mar 29, 2022 11:18:33 GMT yoritomo said:

We have to ask two questions. First is does it target? Second is Psychic Overload a psychic power?

The first question is easy, no it does not target a unit. It simply states the closest unit. Since you don’t have a choice you can’t choose a target which means it doesn’t target.

The second question is a little more difficult, but the answer is still no. A psychic power is defined as having a warp charge value. Psychic Overload does not have a warp charge value so it cannot be a psychic power. As such it is just an ability and can effect the daughters.

your first question is sort of irrelevant since they also can’t be affected by psychic powers (which would be the case for something like psychic scream).

” Each psychic power has a warp charge value – the higher this is, the more difficult it is to manifest the psychic power. ” from core rules.

So same conclusion, psychic overload is not a psychic power and they are not immune. It deals mortal wounds when a condition is satisfied, same as other datasheet based mortal wound abilities we have.

[yoritomo]

Mar 29, 2022 12:23:12 GMT LordPathos said:

Sisters of Silence screening other units to protect them from mortal wounds? Not today!

I wouldn’t go that far. I still have to take a psychic test to trigger psychic overload. Daughters still shut down smite and psychic scream if they are the closest unit.

[purestrain]

Mar 29, 2022 12:28:18 GMT yoritomo said:

Mar 29, 2022 12:23:12 GMT LordPathos said:

Sisters of Silence screening other units to protect them from mortal wounds? Not today!

I wouldn’t go that far. I still have to take a psychic test to trigger psychic overload. Daughters still shut down smite and psychic scream if they are the closest unit.

Few things of note.

1. You only need successfully manifest the spell in with a 7+ and be within 12" of a unit in order for the maleceptors overload to proc.

2. Successful manifestation is defined as a non denied spell, it doesn't matter if they can even be targeted or affected by the spell you cast, you just need to do it and not have it denied.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Agreed on all the above discussion. You could use smite/psychic scream just to try to fish for psychic overload.

[garg]

How does it work for malignant plague caster? They have a similar ability albeit only 1MW.

[yoritomo]

No, I’m pretty sure you can’t use smite/psychic scream if daughters are the closest unit because there is no legal targets for smite/psychic scream. It would be like trying to use smite/psychic scream if there were no units in range.

Now, if daughters were not the closest unit you could smite/psychic scream and Psychic Overload could effect daughters. Though at that point the daughters would not be effected by Psychic Overload as they aren’t the closest unit. You would have to wipe the unit with your smite/psychic scream to make the daughters the closest unit for Psychic Overload.

[purestrain]

Mar 29, 2022 13:38:34 GMT yoritomo said:

No, I’m pretty sure you can’t use smite/psychic scream if daughters are the closest unit because there is no legal targets for smite/psychic scream. It would be like trying to use smite/psychic scream if there were no units in range.

Now, if daughters were not the closest unit you could smite/psychic scream and Psychic Overload could effect daughters. Though at that point the daughters would not be effected by Psychic Overload as they aren’t the closest unit. You would have to wipe the unit with your smite/psychic scream to make the daughters the closest unit for Psychic Overload.

From the psychic section of the rulebook "So long as the Psychic test was successful and the psychic power was not denied by a successful Deny the Witch test, the psychic power is successfully manifested and its effects, which will be described in the power itself, are then resolved."

This means that you first declare you will use a spell, roll 2d6 to see if you in fact manifest it, then they attempt to deny it, if they fail to do so, you then resolve the ability of the spell.

You only go to target things with smite, Psychic scream, etc after you have successfully manifested it.

[zimko]

purestrain is right on this. You can cast Psychic Scream and Smite even if there's no enemies in range (or line of sight... which means you can psychic overload through a wall even if there's no valid target for the spell you're casting)

As an example, when I cast a spell like Catalyst, sometimes my opponent asks what I'm targeting when they're deciding if they want to try and deny it. I say, 'I don't need to tell you that until it successfully casts'. And that's true. You don't select targets for psychic powers until after they cast.

[yoritomo]

So let me get this straight. Your official position is that you can cast your psychic powers into thin air.

[zimko]

Yes, you can cast smite with any psyker and have it fizzle. Your next smite will still require +1 to cast. You can cast Psychic Scream with any psyker that knows it, even if they're in a corner somewhere. But that's the only Psychic Scream you can use that turn. The fact that these normally useless casts now have a purpose is the only reason it's being highlighted. But that's how it's been since the start of 9th, it just hasn't been relevant until now.

[joysan76]

A question always about psichic overload


Do Enraged reserve influence the psichic overload chart?

enraged reserve say that influence carachteristic that change while losing wounds counting them as the model have the double remaining owunds, now the overload chart is not in the profile refenreces and so... the psichic overload damage profile still count as a carachteristic and is influenced?

[zimko]

Mar 29, 2022 15:26:05 GMT joysan76 said:

A question always about psichic overload


Do Enraged reserve influence the psichic overload chart?

enraged reserve say that influence carachteristic that change while losing wounds counting them as the model have the double remaining owunds, now the overload chart is not in the profile refenreces and so... the psichic overload damage profile still count as a carachteristic and is influenced?

No.

Enraged Reserves has the following wording:
"If this model’s characteristics can change as it suffers damage, it is considered to have double the number of wounds remaining for the purposes of determining what those characteristics are."

Characteristics are defined in the core rules as WS, BS, S etc (Look in the page labeled 'Datasheets' in the core rules. Section 4 called 'Profiles'). Psychic Overload is an ability so it's not affected by Enraged Reserves.