First turn charge. Movement and charge buff option.

[shadowfinder]

It has been a while since i played and I am not sure about the turn one restrictions on deepstrike first turn. If this to close the other other thread please let me know.

Our pod can come in first turn we been told.

What other units can be dropped first turn as well Mawloc and Trygons?

What about Jormungandr Strat: Buried In Wait? Is this first turn usable?

Does the trygon strate to bring a core choice with him? If he comes in turn one can he drag Raveners or warriors with him?


WIth the tervagon giving army wide +2 movement. the +1 to charges from the adaptive swap and a +1 charge from the trygon prime to core you can get +4 to charge.

Hormagaunts can get some craze buffs to movement and/or charges.
I can see a possible 20 to 22 inch move with +2 to 4+ to charge. That makes a 36in charge range.
Seams pretty good.

Now that may need a stragem or a Power to go off. But dange seams good.

Raveners are even faster but need a power.

For monsters I only see a +1 to charge. But the can get some good movement boost from the Tervigon as well.

Is it worth taking a tergon for first turn midfill ruch and first turn assaults from deployed units as well as deep-strike

[niiai]

There are several ways to play.

But the only one that count for the purpose for what you are asking are what are called 'match play'. Match play comes with certain rules, one of them are units can not come in from reserves turn 1. This rule has many different names and sometimes represent a unit hiding out (vindicate assassin.) Since the narrative reason for deepstriking varies new players often get confused by it.

There are some units who stil can do it. GSC can arrive from the reserve stratagem one turn earlier, including turn 1. Space marine drop pods do this. And the tyranid spore does this. The reason they can do this is because they spesificlaly ignore mission rules regarding reserves. (As we discussed earlier.) The mawlocks etc you mentioned can not do this.

Is it worth it? In general no. You are playing a 2000 point army and the drop spore costs 100 points. You and landing on their doorstep, often doing the job for them. They can screen and or counter charge.

There are exceptions. Space marines deliver mukti melta turn one VS critical objectives. If you do not come down in your spore turn 1, you can stil threaten forcing a castle.

Lastly, you do not need this to charge turn 1. A lot of armies are just fast enough to charge turn 1 anyway, even when you go first. (It is often easier if you go second.)

Lastly, if you charge a lot look out for the counter offensive stratagem. It ruins my day every time I face orks. Everything ork likes to be in melee.

[lordsia]

Like niiai said; though now we have a plethora of ways to grant charge bonuses to our units. There's an entire thread about it, but the long and short of it is that we can easily add +2 or charge on 3d6 pick two, and if we cheese it we can add up to +3 on characters and +4 on Core units.

So T1 charges are very much viable and, again as niiai said, the threat alone can be useful to force the enemy to take it into account.

Also, we do have a fair few drop-pod shooting options ourselves. Since we can add multiple units in a pod, that means we can drop two triples of pyrovores, for a whopping 6d6 S6 AP-2 D2 hits or 12D6 S4 AP-1 D1 hits; that's enough to wipe a full squad of marines or shred two squads worth of light infantry.

And Hive Guards with shock cannons means you can get a nice angle no matter where the enemy hides.

Or heck: put Synapse on the Tyrannocyte, with fifteen shots you're guaranteed to get the hit you need to pop Shard Lure. Plus, you can always Encircle The Prey to redeploy it wherever you need the extra synapse.

[dkng]

If you go Kronos you can drop pod those HGs and then cast Symbiostorm on them to have 20” S8 ap-3 shots with 4+ autowound and extra mortals against vehicles without any to hit or BS modifiers. And next turn if you dropped them on an objective they will count as 3 models each.

[piersonsmuppet]

Mar 22, 2022 17:47:15 GMT dkng said:

If you go Kronos you can drop pod those HGs and then cast Symbiostorm on them to have 20” S8 ap-3 shots with 4+ autowound and extra mortals against vehicles without any to hit or BS modifiers. And next turn if you dropped them on an objective they will count as 3 models each.

Thats 250 pts for only 6 shots, or 400 pts for all 12. With all 12, that's only 4 MW and ~9 Dmg to a T8 Vehicle worth less pts (PBC is almost 1/3 the pts). Then they get charged and killed/tied up for the rest of the game since 20" is not safe vs much. Impaler HG might have some play in Kronos as a 3-man, but they are just priced so insanely high for what they can do that adding a 100pt delivery system only exacerbates the problem.

[dkng]

I said you can, not that you should

[dcoy]

Mar 22, 2022 17:56:55 GMT piersonsmuppet said:

Mar 22, 2022 17:47:15 GMT dkng said:

If you go Kronos you can drop pod those HGs and then cast Symbiostorm on them to have 20” S8 ap-3 shots with 4+ autowound and extra mortals against vehicles without any to hit or BS modifiers. And next turn if you dropped them on an objective they will count as 3 models each.

Thats 250 pts for only 6 shots, or 400 pts for all 12. With all 12, that's only 4 MW and ~9 Dmg to a T8 Vehicle worth less pts (PBC is almost 1/3 the pts). Then they get charged and killed/tied up for the rest of the game since 20" is not safe vs much. Impaler HG might have some play in Kronos as a 3-man, but they are just priced so insanely high for what they can do that adding a 100pt delivery system only exacerbates the problem.

Drop a Toxicrene instead if you're going to play Kronos.  Its tentacles will be 12" shooting instead of 8" allowing you to activate its stratagem for +2 to charge straight out of the pod on t1.  Slap synapse on it for 10 points and you can shard lure as well (if you think the extra cp is worth it).  Gives you a strong chance of tying up a problem unit or 2 on turn 1.

[kazetanade]

HG are 36" range (40 in Kronos) - if you don't have use for the ap, don't drop them within half.

If Leviathan supplement is in effect, these guys are nuts for objective securing. Tag them with Obsec at the beginning of any turn, they'll beat anyone trying to grab point from them. They're really beefy at T6 W4 3+ and will require dedicated weapons to take out if in cover.

If you have the adaptive for fallback and shoot, profit. Tag them with Maleceptor Imperative to fall back, shoot, and action - win.

Then let's talk about actual damage output. Realistically, There are no buffs whatsoever from WLT or HQ skills applicable because its all CORE locked. So we're talking about 12 shots at 3+ to hit flat. If Supplement is still active, that's 3+ to hit rerolling. With Supplement, 3+ to hit rerolling 12 shots means 12 hits. Bringing toxin Sacs for extra 30pts gives you 1cp (leave it home for 2cp) rerolling wounds and auto wound on 4+; that's 6 wounds and 6MW, rerolling for another 3 wounds and 3MWs.

9 saves and 9 MWs basically means dead PBC.

Assuming no supplement, it's 12 shots, 8 hits, and 4/4 + 2/2.

6MWs to start, then 6 saves, for 4 failed, which is 12D(9D). 18W(15W) total, killing a PBC over easy. Even for a Rotate Ion Shield or a anti-SS platform, you've done 18/22 or 24W relatively consistently, for nearly the same price or lower.

There is only 2 real problems IMO.

1st is that they're only good vs Vehicles, but vs Vehicles they do so well its not funny. Vs MC it all starts to fall apart, and they become merely "ok", and on the basis of shooting into Elites and MC, is their obj holding progress worth their cost?

2nd is that they require either Leviathan Supplement (unknown if its still around), and the same buffs can be used on a myriad of options. Devilgants actually still look super juicy with Levi Supp and Reroll Wounds. The Exocrene is probably a potential candidate for reroll wounds. And then there's the humble Warrior who can also use the reroll wounds cheaply. It's a question of -is there anyone else that needs Said buffs?-

[beetlejuice]

Mar 23, 2022 8:34:30 GMT kazetanade said:

HG are 36" range (40 in Kronos) - if you don't have use for the ap, don't drop them within half.

If Leviathan supplement is in effect, these guys are nuts for objective securing. Tag them with Obsec at the beginning of any turn, they'll beat anyone trying to grab point from them. They're really beefy at T6 W4 3+ and will require dedicated weapons to take out if in cover.

If you have the adaptive for fallback and shoot, profit. Tag them with Maleceptor Imperative to fall back, shoot, and action - win.

Then let's talk about actual damage output. Realistically, There are no buffs whatsoever from WLT or HQ skills applicable because its all CORE locked. So we're talking about 12 shots at 3+ to hit flat. If Supplement is still active, that's 3+ to hit rerolling. With Supplement, 3+ to hit rerolling 12 shots means 12 hits. Bringing toxin Sacs for extra 30pts gives you 1cp (leave it home for 2cp) rerolling wounds and auto wound on 4+; that's 6 wounds and 6MW, rerolling for another 3 wounds and 3MWs.

9 saves and 9 MWs basically means dead PBC.

Assuming no supplement, it's 12 shots, 8 hits, and 4/4 + 2/2.

6MWs to start, then 6 saves, for 4 failed, which is 12D(9D). 18W(15W) total, killing a PBC over easy. Even for a Rotate Ion Shield or a anti-SS platform, you've done 18/22 or 24W relatively consistently, for nearly the same price or lower.

There is only 2 real problems IMO.

1st is that they're only good vs Vehicles, but vs Vehicles they do so well its not funny. Vs MC it all starts to fall apart, and they become merely "ok", and on the basis of shooting into Elites and MC, is their obj holding progress worth their cost?

2nd is that they require either Leviathan Supplement (unknown if its still around), and the same buffs can be used on a myriad of options. Devilgants actually still look super juicy with Levi Supp and Reroll Wounds. The Exocrene is probably a potential candidate for reroll wounds. And then there's the humble Warrior who can also use the reroll wounds cheaply. It's a question of -is there anyone else that needs Said buffs?-

where are you getting the rerolls wounds for these units? Pathogenic slime is only 6’s to hit autowound.

[kazetanade]

Hmm. I seemed to have flipped the Hydra strategem with Pathogenic Slime.


Carry on, carry on.

[beetlejuice]

Mar 23, 2022 9:46:25 GMT kazetanade said:

Hmm. I seemed to have flipped the Hydra strategem with Pathogenic Slime.


Carry on, carry on.

Critical mass is only for fight phase