Everything hive tyrant: Legendery, foot and winged.

[niiai]

So the humble hive tyrant. How are you planning on building and fielding yours?

Personally I have to say the swarmlord giving full re-roll to hit is great. But he is a bit exspensive. And on foot. He is probably better if we have exploding 6's. (I am currently not shure where that is.)

The flying flyrant seems quite good! Move 16! *airhorn sound bow bow bow* Give him adrenal gland and he is move 17. But the question is gun or melee? And what relic? Personally I really like 'the passanger' for a move 19. Probably melee weapons then.

I was thinking about a flying tyrant with heavy venom cannon. I really like the heavy venom cannon. I am a bit unsure about carnifexes, but a hive tyrant with venom cannon seems great. I am unsure if the double cannon survives to the full codex. I really liked the shardgullet relic for D5. But the pathogenesis seems really good with 8" range and the re-roll one hit and one wound. The flying hive tyrat will fly away from tyrant guards. But the walking one can benefit from them.

[dkng]

Heavy Venom Cannon is... well... Heavy So, unless you take the custom adaptation, you’ll lose some accuracy. I’d say if you go for the Winged Tyrant load him with melee weapons. If you take any cannon you’re left with Tyrant Talons which are very lackluster.
If you want a beatstick go with Reaper of Obliterax and Adrenal Glands. He should murder anything in his weight category. Scythes of Tyran seem a bit inferior. For an anti-elite blender go with Claw-Maw (Maw-Claw?) Passenger is also a decent relic, if you go Behemoth and Adrenal Glands this guy will zip to the other side of the table and still hit like a truck but... I’d still go with a weapon upgrade.

[beetlejuice]

Mar 20, 2022 21:07:20 GMT dkng said:

Heavy Venom Cannon is... well... Heavy So, unless you take the custom adaptation, you’ll lose some accuracy. I’d say if you go for the Winged Tyrant load him with melee weapons. If you take any cannon you’re left with Tyrant Talons which are very lackluster.
If you want a beatstick go with Reaper of Obliterax and Adrenal Glands. He should murder anything in his weight category. Scythes of Tyran seem a bit inferior. For an anti-elite blender go with Claw-Maw (Maw-Claw?) Passenger is also a decent relic, if you go Behemoth and Adrenal Glands this guy will zip to the other side of the table and still hit like a truck but... I’d still go with a weapon upgrade.

what do you mean? It goes on a monster so you can shoot just fine as long as you don’t advance, will take -1 to hit shooting in combat though

[piersonsmuppet]

Flying Tyrants still benefit from TG for T1, that can be worth it. They can also be a safety net for a Tyrant popping in from reserves after using Encircle the Prey. If they drop with 3", they can't be targeted for overwatch and are safe from shooting if they miss the charge.

As for loadouts, take a HVC or LW/BS on a Flyrant and both on a Walkrant. The removal of DS & Devs has really limited Tyrant builds. I think there is a niche case for a 4xMST Walking tyrant using Maw Claws or Alien Cunning/Dirgeheart combo, but I don't see that being enough for most lists.

[dkng]

Mar 20, 2022 21:22:25 GMT beetlejuice said:

Mar 20, 2022 21:07:20 GMT dkng said:

Heavy Venom Cannon is... well... Heavy So, unless you take the custom adaptation, you’ll lose some accuracy. I’d say if you go for the Winged Tyrant load him with melee weapons. If you take any cannon you’re left with Tyrant Talons which are very lackluster.
If you want a beatstick go with Reaper of Obliterax and Adrenal Glands. He should murder anything in his weight category. Scythes of Tyran seem a bit inferior. For an anti-elite blender go with Claw-Maw (Maw-Claw?) Passenger is also a decent relic, if you go Behemoth and Adrenal Glands this guy will zip to the other side of the table and still hit like a truck but... I’d still go with a weapon upgrade.

what do you mean? It goes on a monster so you can shoot just fine as long as you don’t advance, will take -1 to hit shooting in combat though

Facepalm. I’m still not used to the 9th tweaks and forgot about heavy having no penalty on monsters. Still my point stands for poor CC when taking the cannon on a Flyrant.

[niiai]

You are stil rocking 7 attacks at AP3, one tail attack with the leg swords though. I am not shure if there is a relic, warlordtrait, stratagem or hive tendril that increase the damage beyond 1. But it is not nothing.

It is just dawing on me that outside of flyrants, maybe the parasite and the hive crone, our melee threat range is rather short in this non double move world. Now we rather move up like a slow sausage.

Our shooting is great though. But it feels like we are the anti orks. Good shooting, OK melee, failry thick. Orks are OK shooting, good melee, failry thick.

[dkng]

Mar 20, 2022 23:01:13 GMT niiai said:

You are stil rocking 7 attacks at AP3, one tail attack with the leg swords though. I am not shure if there is a relic, warlordtrait, stratagem or hive tendril that increase the damage beyond 1. But it is not nothing.

It is just dawing on me that outside of flyrants, maybe the parasite and the hive crone, our melee threat range is rather short in this non double move world. Now we rather move up like a slow sausage.

Our shooting is great though. But it feels like we are the anti orks. Good shooting, OK melee, failry thick. Orks are OK shooting, good melee, failry thick.

It’s not that bad. Raveners are 12”, Screamer-Killers and Horms are 10” (and horms can advance + charge for 1 CP). Behemoth can reroll charges, there are ways to add to move distance, charge roll or roll more dice. Losing the Swarmlord trick is not the end of the world.
OK melee? Wuuut? Are we looking at the same profiles?

[niiai]

The termagaunts are fast I will grant you that. But I am unsure if they are dangerush enough. (Although somebody did make the comparison of stone soup by pouring many buffs their way.) The termagon can also give +2 move if you can fit it in a build.

Genestealer can also forward deploy. Heck, all our spore stuff can deep strike turn one including the transport.

But in the old codex we could slingshot a lot of bad stuff an threaten deep charges turn one. Now gun lines can deploy a bit behind the lines and the flyrant does. It have much good backup. Outside perhaps another flyrant. Raveners, Scythed hierodule, parasite of motrex and hive crone can be back up but i have a hard time seeing it. And then the 200 point flying hive tyrant flyers in and dies? As a counter charge unit it sounds much better, perhaps.

[jesses]

Flyrant charges in, messes stuff up, and you Encircle The Prey right back out of there.

Or take an extra detachment for another Flyrant, Patrols are only 1CP.

Or back it up with Harpy/Hive Crone and Parasite.

Or throw the 8” advance strat on a Haruspex and Onslaught it. (Or maybe Raveners? Can’t remember if you can use this on Monsters)

Or drop pod in almost anything you want as back up.

Honestly you people who think losing the ability to double move ONE UNIT A TURN with Swarmy means we can’t do any T1 charges any more really need to get more creative.

[Hive Bahamut]

Mar 20, 2022 23:54:55 GMT jesses said:

Flyrant charges in, messes stuff up, and you Encircle The Prey right back out of there.

Or take an extra detachment for another Flyrant, Patrols are only 1CP.

Or back it up with Harpy/Hive Crone and Parasite.

Or throw the 8” advance strat on a Haruspex and Onslaught it. (Or maybe Raveners? Can’t remember if you can use this on Monsters)

Or drop pod in almost anything you want as back up.

Honestly you people who think losing the ability to double move ONE UNIT A TURN with Swarmy means we can’t do any T1 charges any more really need to get more creative.

While I agree that there are some options, losing Advance and charge is dumb. (Hormies barely count at 10ppm or 300!! For a unit. That is Genestealer pricing for maybe 1/3 the durability.)

White Scars move +2" and can Advance and charge and they are literally bricks of metal.

Hell Custodes have Sally Forth trait for it and I believe they make up their own unit of measurement for weight. Those are NOT lithe suits of armour.

Harlequins, Drukhari and NIDS should be hauling ass running across the cheese grater. Psychic power is a great way to leave yourself in the open after it failed/denied. If anything Metabolic should have turned into Advance+charge.

The cost of everything is so high too, after 3/4 gets blown away by one activation of SMS, it is hard to see how it gets there.

Also... Please give the correct information if you are going to pick at others...

Patrols are 2 CP
Neither flyer can melee except FLY
There is a very real chance of Onslaught failing and nosediving into nothing.
0:3

Please do more homework when you are trying to be condescending..

[jesses]

My bad on the Patrol being 2CP. Still cheap and we aren't strapped for CP any more.

The flyers can hover (15" Move) and once they do they can charge anything they want.

Of course Onslaught can fail, but it's not much of a risk if you cast it with the Neuro abilities to get 3d6 drop one and +1 to cast. Got like an 10% failure rate at that point, even less if you re-roll.

You didn't mention any of my other valid points so it's more like 4/5. Do your own homework if you are going to try and clapback.

[trashcan01]

Yeah, unable to have Advance and charge (or Swarmlord double move) leaves us much slower; opponents have easier time estimating our threat ranges and are less likely to leave openings or make mistakes.

We were given the tools by the developers that should/could allow us to compensate:
- pre game move for T3 infantry
- advance deployment for Genestealers
- Onslaught psychic power
- Stratagem for Hormagaunts
- Hive tendril static abilities focusing on movement or charge (Kraken/Behemoth)
- various durability buffs - Zhoantrope army wide 4++/5++, better datasheets and rules

Time will tell if it is going to be enough. None of this, in terms of strategy and game plan, will allow us to play like we used to.
There is no need to offend or feel offended that people are criticizing the changes and having different opinions about the new edition.


edit: On topic - I'll test out the Tyrant with relic HVC and 5+++Warlord trait and go from there. I'm very tempted to use Flyrant with the Encircle stratagem. Swarmlord is the last on my list.

[nameless]

It’s so shocking to see that level of negativity regarding this codex when everywhere else you read about it is so positive.

Maybe I’m starting to come around to the flyrant with a reaper (instead of a walking one). I think it will be important to make sure you build the list with timing on hitting, so walking vs flying could be just about that. Encircle really is one of the best stratagem in our codex though.

[dkng]

Mar 21, 2022 5:33:25 GMT Hive Bahamut said:

While I agree that there are some options, losing Advance and charge is dumb. (Hormies barely count at 10ppm or 300!! For a unit. That is Genestealer pricing for maybe 1/3 the durability.)

White Scars move +2" and can Advance and charge and they are literally bricks of metal.

Hell Custodes have Sally Forth trait for it and I believe they make up their own unit of measurement for weight. Those are NOT lithe suits of armour.

Harlequins, Drukhari and NIDS should be hauling ass running across the cheese grater. Psychic power is a great way to leave yourself in the open after it failed/denied. If anything Metabolic should have turned into Advance+charge.

The cost of everything is so high too, after 3/4 gets blown away by one activation of SMS, it is hard to see how it gets there.

Also... Please give the correct information if you are going to pick at others...

Patrols are 2 CP
Neither flyer can melee except FLY
There is a very real chance of Onslaught failing and nosediving into nothing.
0:3

Please do more homework when you are trying to be condescending..

Oh dude, so much salt...
Following this logic there is always a unit in the game that will have a better stat than the one you're comparing it to. Endlessly comparing is bad for your psyche. Adapt to what you got or play another army if you feels Nids are weak, seriously.
This reminds me Starcraft comunity a bit - Zerg nerf reee oh no Zerg too weak... then a tournament is held and top 3 places are all Zerg
On a sidenote - 300 for Horms? Has anyone ever remotely considered a full 30-strong carpet of these with glands? 10 for 80 points is perfect for a quick flank and 3 ap-1 attacks per dude is quite awesome. S4 if you go Behemoth (which I think is the Fleet for you given your drive for face smashing up close )
And one last thing - do you really think, that not changing much from time to time is good for the game? Would you really use the same couple of tricks for like 10 years and not get bored? And bear in mind there is going to be an Update which, maybe, will buff the bugs a bit and not nerf them

[guidebot]

I don't play tourny/ competitive but my group likes a fierce battle. I like the look of a Walkrant with just HVC (and bonesword). He fits a neat envelope for a relatively budget tyrant; good support for your gaunts, meaningful ranged fire and psychic powers, enough CC output to demand a real answer, durable enough that I'm likely happy if my opponent shoots him down as the shots weren't going elsewhere. 175pts seems fine for this.

My Flyrant, I'm less sure on. Part of me thinks that Shardgullet may be good here as the manoeuvrability of the flyrant may aid in finding the shots on the right targets.

Swarmlord isn't on my radar right now, those rules just don't do it for me. Happy to be wrong.