|
|
Post by dkng on Mar 16, 2022 7:57:53 GMT
2 chances to wound on 5+ and a 6+ save VS wounding on 4+ So 2 x 2/6 x 5/6 = 20/36 vs flat 1/2 is a very small gain for 1 ppm. And thats assuming the cardboard armor save. But I get your point. Make it Gorgon wounding on 4+ and it goes up significantly. But this sounds quite niche. Oh well, devilgaunts were mvp for too long already I guess  On a sidenote - compare the menacing and heavy look of the devourer vs the toothpick appearance of the fleshborer - it doesnt make sense the latter is more powerful  |
|
|
|
Post by sarcron on Mar 16, 2022 8:08:39 GMT
I think Gorgon needs another look at, that 4+ to wound always wounds applies to EVERYTHING. Spinefists? Devourers? Fleshborer hive? As long as it's not a vehicle gorgon shooting is really gonna scale up
|
|
|
|
Post by dkng on Mar 16, 2022 9:22:19 GMT
I think Gorgon needs another look at, that 4+ to wound always wounds applies to EVERYTHING. Spinefists? Devourers? Fleshborer hive? As long as it's not a vehicle gorgon shooting is really gonna scale up Its not just that - look at their psy power and stratagem and think about a large horm brood |
|
|
|
Post by guidebot on Mar 16, 2022 10:10:42 GMT
Boom! I remembered my login for the hive, first time.
Well my fellow synapse monsters, it looks like we actually have a good and playable codex here! Good internal balance where almost every choice has a place. I'm finally stoked to play my tyranids for the first time in years.
Long live the hive!
|
|
|
|
Post by vejby on Mar 16, 2022 10:30:06 GMT
While potentially playable, I may go out on a limb here and say bland. Movement tricks are gone, reserve re-direction is gone, it seems there are a good few powerful combo's to be found, but everything is telegraphed in advance and does not seem to allow for the same ceiling in player skill that was necessary with the previous codex. It may be a good thing, but it certainly will be a different army. Although, mawlocs with 16 attacks are still hilarious, if it is not an elaborate hoax.
|
|
|
|
Post by deedus on Mar 16, 2022 11:01:50 GMT
Maybe not a hoax, but possibly an early draft, as someone suggested, and still subject to change.
|
|
|
|
Post by murderfiesta on Mar 16, 2022 12:26:09 GMT
Really hoping this is fake. The PPM cost of chaff units (term, horm garg) is high. Really limits the ability to swarm. This has been the general trend for every army GW has released - increase points costs and durability to reduce the number of models on the table. GW has been pretty explicit about how they don't want 250 model spam armies to exist in 9th edition on the smaller boards. While potentially playable, I may go out on a limb here and say bland. Movement tricks are gone, reserve re-direction is gone, it seems there are a good few powerful combo's to be found, but everything is telegraphed in advance and does not seem to allow for the same ceiling in player skill that was necessary with the previous codex. It may be a good thing, but it certainly will be a different army. Although, mawlocs with 16 attacks are still hilarious, if it is not an elaborate hoax. I definitely think this is "out on a limb" Swarmlord double move warped the game too much to not be baked into the prices of pretty much all units, which made them unplayable if Swarmlord didn't exist and decent at best if Swarmlord did exist. Everything is also not telegraphed in advance, only the Mawloc is. Synaptic Imperatives should be beginning of round (which they are, otherwise you don't have defensive options if you're going 2nd on turn 1), Overrun still exists, the codex as a whole is much faster with a couple ways of making it even faster by a marginal amount without getting into "eldar fast" territory, many options from the Leviathan supplement and Crusher Stampede are present in more reasonable ways, a lot of feels-bad "I win" combos are gone in favor of more situational on-the-fly decisionmaking (Synaptic Links, Synaptic Imperatives, narrower focus of stratagems, better internal balance across models and hive fleets, ability to swap components of hive fleets before a game), Tyrannocytes now work like Drop Pods (turn 1 deep strike). Tyranids under the current iteration are a relatively straightforward army to play. You develop your plan beforehand, and then you execute the plan, and there's limited decisionmaking on that compared to some other armies. The decisionmaking required to pilot *this* codex compared to others seems very high both in terms of composition (which imperatives do you need, which do you want access to, and what kind of tradeoffs are you willing to accept to get them?). I feel like the current codex is getting a side eye from some portion of Tyranid players because it's no longer obvious what the optimal approach is. It's no longer "Bring Leviathan (or Kraken + Kronos before that), bring Swarmlord, bring Crusher Stampede, bring 3 units of warriors, whatever the most cost-efficient monsters are, and make your only real decision around how many units of hive guard you're going to bring, then mash it all into the opponent's face." |
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 16, 2022 12:50:24 GMT
Don't get too excited about those toxicrenes. 12 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, -2AP, damage 1, does 4.44 wounds to a basic marine. That's 175 points of meh. IMHO its not just about his damage, the spore ability forces fight last, on a 3+ things cant back out (2+ for infantry), if you give him the AP for when they try on a 2+ they take d3 mortal wounds he'll bleed them to death before they can kill him. Theres also the cheese master 9000 combo using his ranged attack and moving away from the unit you strat on. The spore ability (Hypertoxic Miasma) has a 50% chance of working. Current Toxicrene has always fight first. Eh. Not sure what you meant with the AP comment on falling back? It sure's better than before, but probably not a tournament choice. If Crusher Stampede is still an option, it would look better. I dunno i feel leviathan so much better than the other hive fleets. The transhuman alone would already make it one of the best fleets but their psychic power is just so good in that it lets you toss an invuln, exploding 6s in melee and range around at will. The only downside is you can't take any of the lurk options But warriors with transhuman t5 4++ and 5+++ just insane. Toss on a minus 1 dmg if needed. Basically much better death guard terminators at 25 points. Where do you get 4++ for Warriors? Warp Shielding is only 5++ on non-monsters, for a single turn, once per game. And that can't be the same turn they have 'exploding 6's in melee'. I don't know where you get 5+++ either? I don't know what 'range around' means. |
|
|
|
Post by niiai on Mar 16, 2022 13:01:17 GMT
Transhuman is good. But somewhat less good on a T5 model. But it is welcomed.
|
|
|
|
Post by vortexdr on Mar 16, 2022 13:04:09 GMT
Really hoping this is fake. The PPM cost of chaff units (term, horm garg) is high. Really limits the ability to swarm. While i sort of agree if you compare them to say Poxwalkers which for some unknown reason cost 6 points id say they are priced okay. |
|
|
|
Post by vortexdr on Mar 16, 2022 13:16:52 GMT
I dunno i feel leviathan so much better than the other hive fleets. The transhuman alone would already make it one of the best fleets but their psychic power is just so good in that it lets you toss an invuln, exploding 6s in melee and range around at will. The only downside is you can't take any of the lurk options But warriors with transhuman t5 4++ and 5+++ just insane. Toss on a minus 1 dmg if needed. Basically much better death guard terminators at 25 points. Where do you get 4++ for Warriors? Warp Shielding is only 5++ on non-monsters, for a single turn, once per game. And that can't be the same turn they have 'exploding 6's in melee'. I don't know where you get 5+++ either? I don't know what 'range around' means. Yeah 4++ was a mistake should be 5++ but no they aren't once per game with Leviathan psychic power you can reuse one on a single unit for the whole game.
5+++ is catalyst....
You can get all that for one turn in the game though, so say 5++, 5+++ and either exploding 6's in melee or range. Actually i suppose its more than that since when Goaded to Slaughter is the main imperative you can once again get the whole thing on a single unit. And all that is only possible with Leviathan.
Whats even more bonkers is that if you deploy your stuff right all those psychic powers cant even be denied since you can cast them from something way in the back and then transfer via synaptic link.
|
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 16, 2022 13:17:55 GMT
Hive Fleet Jormungandr batallion
Adaptation: Territorial Instincts (Monsters have ObSec)
Hive Tyrant - Bonesword&Lashwhip, Heavy Venom Cannon relic Shard Gullet
Neurothrope
4 Warriors, Boneswords, 3 Deathspitters, 1 Venomcannon
4 Warriors, Boneswords, 3 Deathspitters, 1 Venomcannon
4 Warriors, Boneswords, 3 Deathspitters, 1 Venomcannon
3 Zoanthropes
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
2000pts
slightly tweaked, Warp Shielding option turn 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Mar 16, 2022 13:26:37 GMT
Yeah 4++ was a mistake should be 5++ but no they aren't once per game with Leviathan psychic power you can reuse one on a single unit for the whole game. 5+++ is catalyst.... Hive Nexus is just a bit more than 50% chance to cast successfully. If you want to succeed with Catalyst too the chance go down slightly. But sure, it's nice when it works. |
|
|
|
Post by vortexdr on Mar 16, 2022 13:34:03 GMT
Yeah 4++ was a mistake should be 5++ but no they aren't once per game with Leviathan psychic power you can reuse one on a single unit for the whole game. 5+++ is catalyst.... Hive Nexus is just a bit more than 50% chance to cast successfully. If you want to succeed with Catalyst too the chance go down slightly. But sure, it's nice when it works. While not guaranteed, you can cast both from a Neurothrope parked in the back, select yourself for 3d6 and then cast both powers with 3d6 plus 1, makes it somewhat reliable with your cp reroll. Not sure what the math would be on that but its about as reliable as you can get. |
|
|
|
Post by piersonsmuppet on Mar 16, 2022 14:27:30 GMT
While potentially playable, I may go out on a limb here and say bland. Movement tricks are gone, reserve re-direction is gone, it seems there are a good few powerful combo's to be found, but everything is telegraphed in advance and does not seem to allow for the same ceiling in player skill that was necessary with the previous codex. It may be a good thing, but it certainly will be a different army. Although, mawlocs with 16 attacks are still hilarious, if it is not an elaborate hoax. Take another look at Encircle the Prey and say movement tricks are gone... Granted it is not army wide like Metabolic, but we have a lot of flyers & burrowers who won't mind deepstriking T2-5 after they score EoT secondary VP. I'd argue the good use of EtP every turn is much more difficult to master and harder to telegraph than MO or old SL Hive Commander. Exo's really want a Warrior Prime, Exo Strat + Prime imperative gives Exo Tesla w/in 24"! Really nasty for 1 key turn in Kronos to avg 8 S9 hits w/ Symbiostorm, or every turn in Levi. |
|
