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Post by kazetanade on Mar 13, 2022 11:29:04 GMT
Normally I put my lists into my theory crafting thread - but specifically for this one I'm opening its own thread, as I have not had time to test it and I'm taking it to a small RTT event next week. I think there will be a fair number of people interested as it uses a few different elements from what AoW considers strong/competitive. Lists are locked in, so no changes can be made. The key idea is to have: 3 credible melee threats that are likely to kill their intended targets, and a relatively strong backbone of shooting + scoring for secondaries, and stealing/hoarding on opponents secondaries. Characters give buffs and utility things and helps me secure ObSec advantage over contestable points. Gameplan is likely to play safe and use bikes to take out key potential threats early on T1 and T2 - we either take Engage or Broodswarm, as I don't want to be forced to sit on objectives if I don't need/want/risk it. On T2 we have a thick blob come down (or walk up) and shoot at threats, take fire, don't run, regen. On T3 2nd unit drops and tries to go for wraps after shooting, while 1st unit wrestles with mid. Stall points out till 5th turn and max score Engage/RND and hopefully 10 score TTL. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [100 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Cult Creed. Myriad Cult: Industrial Affinity (1), Synaptic Resonance (1), Toxin Agents (2) Detachment Command Cost+ Stratagems +Gene-sire's Gifts [-2CP]: 2x Extra Relic + No Force Org Slot +Kelermorph [4 PL, 95pts]: Proficient Planning: A Perfect Ambush, Relic: Wyrmtooth Rounds Nexos [3 PL, 50pts]: Relic: Cranial Inlay + HQ +Magus [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Might From Beyond, Power: Psychic Stimulus, Proficient Planning: Meditations in Shadow, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Alien Majesty Primus [5 PL, 95pts]: Proficient Planning: Exacting Planner + Troops +Acolyte Hybrids [12 PL, 215pts]: Proficient Planning: A Trap Sprung . 8x Acolyte Hybrid: 8x Autopistol, 8x Blasting Charges, 8x Cult Claws and Knife, 8x Frag Grenades . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter . Acolyte Leader: Cult Bonesword, Cult Lash Whip Acolyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: Proficient Planning: Lying in Wait . 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cult Claws and Knife, 4x Frag Grenades . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cult Claws and Knife Acolyte Hybrids [4 PL, 55pts]: Proficient Planning: From Every Angle . 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cult Claws and Knife, 4x Frag Grenades . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cult Claws and Knife Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 45pts]. 4x Acolyte Hybrid: 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Cult Claws and Knife, 4x Frag Grenades . Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cult Claws and Knife Neophyte Hybrids [8 PL, 215pts]. Genomic Enhancement (Alchemist Supreme): Enhanced Resilience . 3x Neophyte Hybrid (Flamer): 3x Autopistol, 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Flamer, 3x Frag Grenades . Neophyte Hybrid (Icon): Cult Icon, Cult Shotgun . 4x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Frag Grenades, 4x Seismic Cannon . 11x Neophyte Hybrid (Shotgun): 11x Autopistol, 11x Blasting Charges, 11x Cult Shotgun, 11x Frag Grenades . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol, Cult Shotgun Neophyte Hybrids [8 PL, 215pts]. 11x Neophyte Hybrid: 11x Autogun, 11x Autopistol, 11x Blasting Charges, 11x Frag Grenades . 3x Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): 3x Autopistol, 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Frag Grenades, 3x Grenade Launcher . Neophyte Hybrid (Icon): Autogun, Cult Icon . 4x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 4x Autopistol, 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Frag Grenades, 4x Seismic Cannon . Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol + Elites +Aberrants [16 PL, 315pts]: Proficient Planning: Our Time is Nigh . 9x Aberrant: 9x Heavy Power Weapon . Aberrant Hypermorph: Heavy Power Weapon Biophagus [3 PL, 65pts]: Alchemicus Familiar, Proficient Planning: Alchemist Supreme Clamavus [3 PL, 50pts]: Relic: The Voice of the Liberator Hybrid Metamorphs [3 PL, 69pts]. Hybrid Metamorph (Autopistol) . 3x Hybrid Metamorph (Hand Flamer): 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Frag Grenades, 3x Hand Flamer, 3x Metamorph Mutations . Metamorph Leader: Autopistol, Metamorph Mutations Purestrain Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: Proficient Planning: They Came From Below . 10x Purestrain Genestealer: 10x Cult Claws and Talons + Fast Attack +Atalan Jackals [3 PL, 58pts]: 2x Demolition Charge . 3x Atalan Jackal (Small Arms): 3x Atalan Small Arms, 3x Blasting Charges . Atalan Leader: Atalan Small Arms Atalan Jackals [3 PL, 58pts]: 2x Demolition Charge . 3x Atalan Jackal (Small Arms): 3x Atalan Small Arms, 3x Blasting Charges . Atalan Leader: Atalan Small Arms + Dedicated Transport +Goliath Truck [5 PL, 90pts]++ Total: [100 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 19, 2022 4:56:38 GMT
First game was vs Deathwing Terminators. Score was 90 vs 37. Give highlights later. EDIT: Here is his list:
++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Dark Angels) [93 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts]
+ Configuration +
**Chapter Selector**: Dark Angels
+ Stratagems +
Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics
+ No Force Org Slot +
Deathwing Apothecary [5 PL, -1CP, 100pts]: Arbiter's Gaze, Storm bolter, Storm of Fire, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter
+ HQ +
Azrael [9 PL, 2CP, 170pts]: 1. Brilliant Strategist, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Sword of Secrets, Warlord
. Lion's Wrath
+ Elites +
Deathwing Ancient [5 PL, 100pts]: Pennant of Remembrance
. Powerfist and Storm Bolter
Deathwing Command Squad [10 PL, 205pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. Deathwing Terminator: Assault cannon, Power Fist
. Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Chainfist
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Power Fist
Deathwing Command Squad [10 PL, 205pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. Deathwing Terminator: Assault cannon, Power Fist
. Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Chainfist
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Power Fist
Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 430pts]: Watcher in the Dark
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Cyclone Missile Launcher, Storm Bolter, Power Fist
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Chainfist
. 5x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Power Fist
Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 395pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Assault cannon, Power Fist: Assault cannon, Power fist
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Chainfist
. 5x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Power Fist
Deathwing Terminator Squad [18 PL, 395pts]
. Deathwing Sergeant: Storm Bolter & Power Sword
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Assault cannon, Power Fist
. 2x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Chainfist
. 5x Deathwing Terminator: Storm Bolter & Power Fist
++ Total: [93 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++
Mission was: Tides of Conviction (Nachmund 2021 Strike Force Mission 31) Secondaries on both sides were: GSC - TTL(Hidden), EoAF, RND DA - Defiance, TTL, Banners Map Terrain: Entire event was run with GW Open terrain format as a base with some tweaks. Quick Batrep: T1 - GSC starts first; DA basically deployed in a really tight ball of 30 Terminators spread across and between 2 ruins, staying out of range. I judge the Terminator bricks too difficult for a buffed PGS unit to take down, and also cannot disappear even if I did manage to take out a brick, and decide to pull the PGS back into Underground. Truck with Abbies tries to move to a safe-ish position to launch the Abberants in a truck down the lane next turn. The Bikes fanned out to LOS blocking corners of the midfield terrain, setting up for EoAF on T2. The FEA Acolytes scored me my 2 Engage pts and RND tick on T1, then I was done. The DA player moves up the brick on one flank to get to the objective, and moves the other flank onto the closest objective and tries to get an angle with Missles and Assault Cannons on my bikes, but doesnt manage to clip it. T2 - My truck is actually still out of position and unable to get the Abberants close enough - since the DA decided to commit more of his bricks to the left flank, I dropped with my Acolytes on the right flank where the Abbies were supposed to go, and get my grounded Neophyte unit out enough to action and shoot the Seismics. Shooting is poor, as expected - the obsec Brick is buffed with -1D, so I used +1D on the demo charges to compensate, then since its all Perma-Transhuman, decided to try using the S4 profile to shoot into the Terminators. A grand total of 3 died after this - obviously not the most powerful shooting. I tag Mass Hyp (or whatever our spell that -1A and fight last is now) on the right flank brick of 30, Might on the Acolytes, denied overwatch, and got in. I got "gotcha'ed" by their First Rank fight only strategem, which resulted in only 4 Industrials and 3 guys getting to swing, missing the kill by a significant margin, and the swing back was painful enough to take me out 8 guys. This Acolyte got lucky and got fnp, so I managed to save 2 or 3 guys from dying. We tied on the objective, so I had to use my Clamavus to steal obsec from it so that he couldnt score off that objective. On his turn, he just unleashed damage, pushed further up on every flank and on his backline to extend range/buffs forward. I lost around 8? Neophytes which allowed me to duck back behind terrain from casualties. He swings and almost kills the Acolyte unit, but doesnt quite secure the kill, so I win on obsec. T3 - He left a gap in the back with small access to his Stubborn Defiance scorer on the back objective - He also left a space that 3" LiW could steal the objective. I layered a situation where he would either Auspex the Genestealers, or Auspex the 3" LiW that stole his objective and banner, and he chose to take out the LiW. Abbies also make a beeline to the right flank. I dropped the 2nd unit of 20 guys in my dep zone where they can tag team on one of the Terminator units; I originally considered charging a terminator unit to secure objectives, but decided not to considering they could easily kill the whole unit in Overwatch + Fight damage. After spells, we unloaded 2 units of Neophytes into a single Terminator brick, with shotguns + flamers + seismic + grenade launchers all going in. 3 guys was killed again, leaving 7 left. Abbies make it in, and kill him down to the last 2 man due to some FNP issues where I burnt a total of 4 failed saves on terminators due to FNPs made. Purestrains also made it in, having to fight after Abbies because I messed up token placement/spells. They manage to kill the Apothecary, and take down his command squad to 1 guy left; since they werent obsec, I had more models and took over his deployment obj, and took down his banners. I kill his obsec again to make sure he cant score off the right flank termis vs Abbies. He responds with another hail of ACs and Stormbolters On Neophytes, utterly wiping the 2nd squad with pre-set FNP and wiping the 1st squad to 1 guy left. Jesus Christ, stormbolters. Middle Termi block runs off to hit the Abbies, managing to kill a grand total of 2 before Abbies hit back and wipe the original right flank Termis. His left flank now pushes up aggressively into my closer objective, and a 5 man Command Squad takes up residence on the No Mans Land point. Azazel charges my Genestealers to try and clear it, but it didnt work and I fought with them after charges to secure my kill on his Command Squad, undoing his objectives. T4 - My abbies hit him hard and kill him in combat. Bikes on right side that have been chilling since the begining now zoom up, get Adv 6", say a word of prayer, and try to score him, but to no avail, leaving him on 3W left. The remaining Neophyte squad gets some Seismics back and I pull them off the board and into deepstrike to escape the aggressively pushing up Terminator brick, and run the closes characters as far away as safely as possible. However, Genestealers still hold fast and get past with barely more people than Azazel on the point. His T4 is trying to catch up on scoring, because at this point I've deprived him for 2 turns of scoring, since it's Hold 2/3/more and he hasnt held 2 since Turn 2. However, Azazel fails to kill off the Genestealers, his remaining Terminator brick doesnt have Line of Sight over, and the bikes added bodies that continued to outnumber him on the point. T5 - I start the round with 1 minute and 30 seconds left, so I drop my Neophytes and shoot Azazel off the point, securing his home objective, and max scoring off the Map Bonus. He scores min objectives, 5 on TTL, 2 on Defiance, and 4 banner; I max scored RND, scored 10 on my TTL, and 13 for Engage. CLOSING THOUGHTS:- I needed to make use of cover better, especially if I am not charging. I could have survived the barrage if I had sat in or on cover, since I could have gotten a 3+ save against -1 for 4+sv 5+++; I would not have lost my 2nd unit of Neophytes. - I need to line important damage components to the front so that something like that doesnt happen again. The 2 guys dropped was a really big issue, although truthfully the real issue was not having my full unit get to hit. - Toxin so far has had the best return on any Trait I've tried so far - Deep Supplies doesnt often translate into anything meaningful, and Agile only has a 1 turn effective use quota. The only other trait that has given such great value is Affinity, for obvious reasons, and Resonance is clutch when you actually need it. And so far, Toxin feels like it helps cover the damage loss I would have experienced not doing Impassioned adequately, with potential upside vs tougher opponents. The fact also that Harlies have a 4+ to hit always kind of thing going on also raises questions on how good Impassioned will be going forward. But I can say with certainty that PGS with 50A and Toxin is REALLY. REALLY good. Like, better than TH kind of good (like, TH spell level of good without the investment of psykers). - Transhuman really skews a lot of list calc. It was a big surprise when 10 Abbies goes into 7 Terminators and only kills 5 of them; lucky FNPs made a big diff. - A big part of my swing came from my opponent not being used to dealing with opportunistic melee armies, and he neglected to screen properly on his backline (not that he could with such an elite army, but he allowed a 3" LiW on the objective which was entirely preventable). It's obvious from his list that he is used to shootouts - a full shooting Terminator army is a relic of an army. Being all obsec was a challenge regardless, but he was complaining a fair bit about how if he'd known the terrain would have so much LOSB, he'd have just brought 13 venoms. (The terrain was included in the mission pack - he just didnt read it). - Clamavus turned out to be a big hero, much bigger than expected. Keeping a unit Fearless, while also killing obsec from 18" away, I have some pretty big newfound respect for him. I'd rate him on parr with the Nexos in terms of value, which is diminished a bit when not in use, but extremely clutch when required. I note some of the random missions require actions, and having him + Nexos around allows you to work that out much more smoothly when dedicated action monkeys are already doing RND. |
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 19, 2022 7:04:18 GMT
2nd game vs Chaos Knights. Score was 95 vs 33. More info to follow. His list as follows:
++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Knights) [104 PL, 1,995pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Dread Household: House Vextrix
+ Lord of War +
Knight Tyrant [32 PL, 620pts]: 1. Infernal Quest, Character (Traitoris Lance), Plasma decimator and Volcano lance, The Blasphemous Engine, Twin siegebreaker cannons, 2x Two Shieldbreaker missiles, Warlord
War Dogs [16 PL, 280pts]
. War Dog: Meltagun, Thermal spear and Reaper chain-cleaver
. War Dog: Meltagun, Thermal spear and Reaper chain-cleaver
War Dogs [16 PL, 280pts]
. War Dog: Meltagun, Thermal spear and Reaper chain-cleaver
. War Dog: Meltagun, Thermal spear and Reaper chain-cleaver
War Dogs Moirax [16 PL, 325pts]
. War Dog Moirax: 2x Lightning lock
. War Dog Moirax: Lightning lock, Siege claw
War Dogs Moirax [24 PL, 490pts]
. War Dog Moirax: 2x Lightning lock
. War Dog Moirax: 2x Lightning lock
. War Dog Moirax: Lightning lock, Siege claw
++ Total: [104 PL, 1,995pts] ++
Mission was: Conversion (Nachmund 2022 Strike Force Mission 22) Secondaries on both sides were: GSC - Bring It Down, RND, EoAF Chaos Knights - Behind Enemy Lines, TTL, (I forgot - I think it was No Prisoners) Map Terrain: It was GW Open format, but the buildings seemed a bit closer than usual for a table quarter deployment, giving the Knight Player easy access to all terrain and LOS on my side. Quick Batrep: T1 - GSC goes first again. I originally contemplated taking an aggressive stance and pushing all my fast damage into his face fast - but ultimately decided against it and pulled my PGS into deepstrike again, as I didnt want them to solo run into 10 mini knights and a big Knight, maybe not kill a Knight, then get Tesla Locked down to nothing. The left flank bike squad set up behind LOSB (but did not set up properly, should have fully been in the building for complete LOSB rather than behind the area terrain), and the right flank went straight up to one of the shooting Moiraxes to take one out of commission straight up. A single demo was enough to do it. I set up Neophytes for an extremely safe T1, action, and to not get charged while I wait and see what he was going to do. On his T1, he pushed up TWO of his war dogs into my deployment zone, and attempted a long charge with a Full Tilt to try and grab my infantry (I got lucky and it wasnt possible without tagging my character too, which he tried for but failed with a reroll). I lost both bike squads. T2 - With two wardogs and a Tyrant in my face on T1, I had no choice but to try and retaliate hard. Abbies came out and made beehive to the Tyrant, PGS popped out of his back to try for his base objective, and the 2nd 20 man and Kellermorph also dropped to try and solve the War Dog issues by shooting. The shooting did less than expected - one War Dog was overkilled by a bit, but the 2nd one barely received 6 wounds from Kellermorph, 40 Neophytes, and a Goliath Truck shooting to try and secure the kill. Since there was nothing I could do in shooting, moving onto melee phase I had a few kill requirements - I had to take out the moirax on the back objective, take out the Tyrant, take out the remaining wardog in my face, then figure out how to deal with 3 more moiraxes after. I knew the Abbies would kill the Tyrant easily - its my tech for killing Stormsurges afterall. I ended up overkilling the Tyrant by like. 15-18 damage, so yeah. But I also charged the War Dog half wounded with my Neophytes (they got the biophagus buff for ap-1 so I thought I'd try, and also prevent him from getting any further in for BEL). It worked and I plebbed him, but he killed enough on swing back that he regen'ed much of his hp back after that (ie; it was a pretty big mistake). The PGS got Might from Beyond and this is where the autowounds really came into things - I got more auto wounds than successful wounds into T7, which was enough to wipe the Moirax out. On his turn, he had to send things back to deal with the Genestealers ( he sent a Moirax and a Wardog ), who somehow failed to secure the last 2 guys even after combat. The wardog in combat just tried to fight his way out by was unable to. T3 - My Acolyte unit comes in and sets up a charge on the Moirax and Wardog back on his objective - the two Seismic Neophyte units regen, backed off, and set up to shoot the intrudcing wardog, while the Abberrants finished the Moirax that they'd tagged in combat earlier turn. The wardog died to the combined volumes of arms and 3+ ot hit, and my Acolytes made the charge on both and wiped both - at this point, he only has 1 Moirax and 1 Wardog left. The Wardog is stuck because he needs something near or on an objective, and he was now running out of stuff. He tries to force some damage through, but there was nothing good to shoot within vision. T4 - I tabled the guy and we talked theoretical and called the game there. CLOSING THOUGHTS: - I know the guy playing this personally; I sometimes dont get his objective choices. When asked, he often tells me he was just wanting to try something different and see how it feels like for him. - Halfway through the game I think he realized he goofed by sending the two wardogs into me so quickly. He was my last practice game before the event, a few weeks ago, so his memory of my list then and now are completely different. I did try to forewarn him, but we were on a timer and it fell by the wayside somewhat. - A big reason why I decided on Toxin was this last game with him, as well as an earlier one vs Triple Stormsurge. A mechanized list doesnt have enough consistent damage to push through MSU or mass vehicles, and definitely cannot punch a hole through Montka'ing Stormsurges. - Sadly I dont think there was much to learn here - it was a matchup I was familiar with, that I knew what it was capable of, and was able to work around it. |
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 19, 2022 12:19:13 GMT
3rd game vs Tau tripsurge and Crises. Game went 92 - 47. More info to come soon. His list as follows:
++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (T'au Empire) [51 PL, -6CP, 1,035pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept
+ Lord of War +
Stormsurge [17 PL, 345pts]: Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Twin Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Velocity Tracker
Stormsurge [17 PL, 345pts]: Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Twin Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Velocity Tracker
Stormsurge [17 PL, 345pts]: Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Twin Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Velocity Tracker
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (T'au Empire) [55 PL, 11CP, 964pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept
+ Stratagems +
Stratagem: Emergency Dispensation [-1CP]: Additional Relics
+ HQ +
Cadre Fireblade [4 PL, 70pts]: Ohr'tu's Lantern
. 2x Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight
Commander in Crisis Battlesuit [9 PL, 165pts]: 1. Precision of the Hunter, Burst Cannon, Cyclic Ion Blaster, DW-02 Advanced Burst Cannon, Iridium battlesuit, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Solid-image Projection Unit, Warlord
. Marker Drone
+ Troops +
Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts] 10x Kroot
Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts] 10x Kroot
Strike Team [4 PL, 80pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse Rifle
. 9x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle
+ Elites +
Crisis Battlesuits [10 PL, 174pts]
. 2x Crisis Shas'ui: Airbursting: Fragmentation Projector, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, T'au Flamer, Target Lock
. Crisis Shas’vre: Airbursting: Fragmentation Projector, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, T'au Flamer, Target Lock
. 2x Shield Drone
Crisis Battlesuits [22 PL, 355pts]
. 4x Crisis Shas'ui: Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Velocity Tracker
. Crisis Shas'vre: Iridium battlesuit, Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, Stimm Injectors
. 5x Shield Drone
++ Total: [106 PL, 5CP, 1,999pts] ++
Mission was: (Scouring Nachmund 2022 Mission 23) Secondaries on both sides were: GSC - Engage on All Fronts, RND, Titan Slayer (Hidden) Tau - Assassinate, Grind Them Down, Banners (I think) Map Terrain: GW Open base, but with a twist - the midfield was cut more diagonally than normal, giving good sightlines on each outer half of the map, but not to the inner (needing to step on the middle terrain) and other half. Quick Batrep: T1 - First game where I GSC didnt go first. The deployments were as standard as you'd expect - I'd placed my bikers on the line on either flank, and blipped right behind the terrain to be in cover and out of LOS of everything. The center was left open, as the opponent's Triple Stormsurge were set out on extreme left, extreme right, and dead center - dead center had a straight sightline down to my middle between two ruins, so setting up and hiding there is impossible. The general idea was to setup a Truck at the forefront, 20 man behind it, Characters behind the 20 man, and an empty side flank for the FEA and Purestrain placements, depending how he deployed. Enemy's deployment were the 3 stormsurges, a block of 5 Crisis suits in ruins LOSB, a 10 man Breacher holding the rear and 2x10 man Kroots on the other side holding the other flank. On his T1, he rushed his Stormsurges onto the side of the objectives, trying to gun for the Bikes which I had shifted all the way to the back of the buildings, as he didnt know anything else about my deployment and the bikes have a bit of a reputation as "stupidly broken damage". Here I saw he moved his Stormsurges too far up - they were within 15" and 18" respectively, and my Truck disembark Abberrants could easily secure that kill. From there, I made a potentially brutal mistake - I decided to move my Truck to the closest stormsurge and spend 2cp to move my Neophyte blob and my Clamavus over to behind the new Truck position, leaving my 4 other characters protected only by a unit of bikes. That was my Nexos, Primus, Magus, and Biophagus. As expected, he wanted to go after the Neophytes which I protected using Lurk in the Shadows, forcing him to shoot into the bikes with his Stormsurges - essentially the situation I wanted. What I did not expect was for Stormsurges to get 3 Systems for free, so they ignored cover, got free overwatch, and rerolled wounds or hits or something vs horde units. It was a bit of a big risk and I got extremely lucky - He couldnt get markerlight and no rerolls cuz he moved, so he had to use 2 Stormsurge to total the unit, and the 3rd Stormsurge got greedy and shot into multiple characters, basically killing none of them. The -1 to hit from the Bikers was quite key in this way. One unit of kroot pushed up to the middle objective to Scouring Score it. On my turn, I moved the Neophytes out of cover to try and shoot out the Kroot on the middle and stop his Scouring score. The characters ran right across the gap to the Neophytes, hoping to keep safe, and I shoved the Biophagus hard right in order to try and screen out the incoming Crisis suit drop with Flamers and such. The 1st unit of bikes somehow managed to survive, since nothing shot at it, so it moved up behind the 2nd midfield ruin to setup for something the next turn. The abberrants made bank out of the Truck, and setup for a 6" or 5" charge on the enemy SS. In shooting, I was pretty upset to see how poorly the Neophytes Seismic did - without 12" ignore cover and +1 to wound, the unit barely did much, killing only like 5 out of 10 Kroot from 24 shots. Kroot are surprisingly tanky with a +1 to cover save and T4 base. The abberrants came out and made their charge, coming in clean but failing to kill the Stormsurge - they missed by 1save. This was an issue because I planned for them to make the kill and then whisk them away using Return to the Shadows. T2 - Since the Abbies are on the field, they came priority no.1; he moved the full unit of Crisis suits within range to pour all their multi-damage weapons into the Abbies, all 3 Stormsurges set up to actually destroy the Abbies. Kroot moved up to block or contest as required, grab the 2nd objective, and Scanner it as well. The nearly dead SS regen'ed to as if full wounds, but I managed to secure the kill using the Cut Them Down strategem from the main book. He tries to target the Neophytes again, but using the Bike and Abberants, I managed to keep them safe for another turn. Here his 3 man Flamer/AFP Crisis squad dropped into my backline where the Biophagus was trying to push out, but they do get an angle on my Magus, since characters dont block other characters. Long story short, he tried to pour the 3 man into my lone Magus, and the 5 man with Plasma and Missles into the Abberants to kill them. Due to -1d and fnp, this only killed 2 models, so he had to start shooting with the SS to kill them - which left nothing to shoot my Bikes, and subsequently shoot my Neophytes as the closest thing. They died, but they usually do, and my team is much strnger all across the galaxy for strength. In my turn, I executed the real plan, where we got another 20 man dropping into the backfield for Tau, Kellermorph dropped near them, poising to either shoot out the Cadre or the Fire Warriors on the point (I eventually chose the fire warriors, and manuveured around to give my Neophytes XX buff on the FWs). The Truck went for the crisis suits in my backfield to charge, so that the Flamers and AFP will stop being an issue for me altogether. Purestrains come down on the left to try a charge on the Krooots - and after that, consolidate into the Crisis Suits to take them out of the fight for a turn. My opponent made a small mistake which ended up being a huge boon for me - his commander also advanced to reach the Abbies, but he left the attached drone a little too far back - I could deploy my 4 cannons and claim closest availability, so it gave me the opening I was looking for to take out the Suits from the game (it was the crisis commander that gives suits a fall back and charge, so if I could kill him, I could prevent fall back and charge for the rest of the game. Needless to say, I succeeded; the PGS slaughtered the Kroot, and tagged the Crisis right after). Lying in Wait was of huge value here - I had to fit the 5 man into a tiny hole between some of his units to draw XX for my Neophytes to kill the Commander, and I had just enough for a 3 man there. T3 - Enemy kills off the 2nd bike which was used to draw aggro and and protect stuff behind it; a lot of shots from the 3rd SS was used into the Neophytes in his backfield, but due to 5+++ on it, they survived the full barrage with models to spare. There was a little spiff between the Cadre and the Kellermorph - the Kellermorph actually tanked a no-invul plasma shot and then a seeker missle to the face like a champ and survived. The flamer Crisis backed off, but will get chased down, and since he lost fall back and shoot, the Crisis were forced to shoot into the PGS, which managed to tank most of the hate for a turn. In my turn, it was straight forward - He had lost all of his forward scoring, leaving only 2 Crisis Suits units and a SS as his main tools to play with. So I ran my Acolytes which were ignored and smashed the 3rd SS with it - thereafter it was just a game of tag, action to score secondaries, and holding points for Primaries. CLOSING THOUGHTS- The mistake in the begining nearly cost me the game, and basically this list is too lean and cannot afford much of the plan to go wrong (ie people deepstriking into my face, a bad dice roll, only 1 real blocking unit for iLOS. - I had some luck because of the Kroot and SS not having the right keywords - this list IS built to counter this list, as I expected it to be the main boogeyman at that time. The list definitely did not disappoint. But if we had matched to a more Suits and Infantry play, with FWs and Pathfinders, the game would be very different considering the PGS and the Acolytes would not be able to make it into anything. It changes the dynamics quite severely and flashes a serious light on the viability of deepstrike melee in general (and our ability to deliver multiple melee threats, in general). - I had done a goof; toxin agent does NOT work vs MC and Vehicles. It would not have affected my games too much, but it was a big blow to the general list viability, since it loses the "stabilizing" factor it was suppose to have wrt to incoming Nids meta. However, I havent really come across anything that has the same type of value as Toxin Agent does, so to me, the only other *real* consideration anyone can have is either a Named Cult for specific reason, or Impassioned Affinity, and the QoL I get from the psychic trait is too good to drop (although if you dont rely on psychic, then Toil or Convoy are really good picks too). - Neophytes are the backbone of this army. The best unit in the book is literally Neophytes, and you're encouraged to take a LOT of them. The other shooting options are decent, but I dont think anything beats out Neophytes at the end of the day. They even have a similar cost bracket to the Ridgerunner with Mining Lasers (90 vs 80). |
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Post by beetlejuice on Mar 19, 2022 16:31:09 GMT
3rd game vs Tau tripsurge and Crises. Game went 92 - 47. More info to come soon. just to clarify, did you win 3 or lose 3? |
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 19, 2022 18:06:36 GMT
Oh. I should have clarified. MY - OPP scores. I won all 3 games at nearly max score, losing points on early game EoAF and RND cap at 12.
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Post by beetlejuice on Mar 19, 2022 18:49:07 GMT
Oh. I should have clarified. MY - OPP scores. I won all 3 games at nearly max score, losing points on early game EoAF and RND cap at 12. I was hoping that was the case but the Tau game made me uncertain:) |
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Post by kazetanade on Mar 19, 2022 21:01:51 GMT
Indeed - Tau was my most scared matchup, and my first matchup playing GSC. It was a good trial test, but it was also somewhat nerve-wracking to play, as I experienced the "one turn wipe" the army is capable of.
It's 5am now so I'll complete the one for Tau tomorrow.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 7, 2022 12:44:06 GMT
I really like this list. I keep gravitating towards a variant now with Patriarch instead of Clamavus + Metas but I can see the use of action + shoot.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 19, 2022 18:59:55 GMT
Sorry guys it took me so many weeks to make updates - also reading through what I typed when I was pretty much sleep-typing ; it's both hilarious and somewhat concerning, but I hope you guys had a good laugh at it when you first read it XD.
Anyway, it's all up now and I think it's fair to say that I'm quite comfortable with the list being able to perform into most matchups - Eldar was one matchup where I felt like I got blindsided by how much anti-infantry they're stacking, but it's basically just another Tau with different toys. With the incoming Nids dominance, and the AoC changes, the list could probably continue to work, but would require quite a bit of shifting. The Abberrants, while very durable, are extremely point inefficient for damage output now - they now need both ap+1 and 5+++ to continue being serviceable, and while they may secure their kills, they will be facing a lot more 3D or 4D weapons in the field and are always facing the massive risk of a huge trade down. Likewise for Eldar of all varieties and Sisters, Abbies basically trade extremely poor into most of the army, and trade down into Terminators (and whiffs vs DA Terminators, although that isnt their fault). Even against Nids, the trade is expected to be 300 vs 180 or 200 for relevant bodies, and the new advent of W4 chassis is creating problems for Abby efficiency, which is already hurt from their low A stat.
If I were to make changes (which I am), it's either to lessen the melee portions (toss the Abbies) to create more shooting pressure (via Ridgerunners who are prioritized for safety, or more Neophytes and bikes), or to move things to Impassioned Affinity and bring more trucks and Acos. 1x5 Abbies is still a decent tool to remove something problematic when you need to, and Impassioned Affinity makes Rockgrinders surprisingly scary to deal with. PGS are the only people that dont benefit, until you go up vs Harlies/Elves and need an additional +1 to offset Lightning Reflexes.
There's also an alternative build with TH which I think can do pretty well, that looks similar to the Impassioned Affinity buildstyle, but just much more melee focus vs shooting focused.
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Post by wound on Apr 19, 2022 19:39:09 GMT
Im trying to go back to the game now that the pandemics is slowing down, the thing im having the msot trouble is secundaries, what is RND and EoAf?
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 20, 2022 4:33:19 GMT
Retrieve Nachmund Data
- any infantry or biker can perform an action, in a table quarter, roll a dice and roll same/ lower than number of models in unit. Must be 6" from the quarter edge line (ie cut the table into a + and be 6" from those lines). Action finishes end of your turn, 1 unit a turn. Score is 0/4/8/12 depending how many did you action.
Engage on All Fronts
- any infantry unit more than 3, and any vehicle, in each quarter edge, but not within 6" of the center of map. 2vp for being in 3 quarters, 3vp for being in all 4.
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