VS Tau

[niiai]

I saw the moderators wnated to wiat some months before making a dedicated Tau thread.

Anyway played vs them yesterday. End of his turn 2 I had only 7 neophytes left and my reserves. I came in from reserves and tryed to do things. His turn 3 he had all objektives and just fell back to shoot me. And I conseded.

Here is what he had:

Mont'Ka. (AP+1, re-roll wound rolls of 1.)

Sept: Bork'An +4 to range of ranged weapons. Damage <8 against vehicles or battlesuits reduce S by 1. (So hand flamers are S2 vs stealth suits.)



- 3 units of the long range fire warriors.

- 3 units of 5 stealth suits. (They can forward deploy and have amazing defensive. Also they ecah shoot 5 or 6 shots, get AP from Mont'ka.)

- 1 units of markelight dudes.

- 1 Units of 3 Crisis suits (can deepstrike tunr 2 next to the stelath suits.)

- 1 Unts of 3 broadsides.

- 1 Stormsurge.

- 3 characters, 2 in suits.

***

I played a verison of Nick Nanavati list with some inferior choises. Anyway, I played it bad and I got just floored.

First of, are Tau over powered? Second, both fire warriors and battlesuits have a 1 cp stratagem to decrease my charge range with 2. Eve rolling 3d6 and removing the smallest it is very hard to charge 9 (with banner) or 10 (without banner.) He has just a high number of shots, and the Mont'ka is just so devestating vs my non existent armour.

How do I play better vs Tau? While I do not like to tailor lists, this was devestating.

One note, is there was almost no line of sight blocking terain. 3 pieces, and the 2 large once where placed in the deployment sones, with was very good for the Tau and not good for me. We will charge that next time.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Could you post your list? It would help my understanding for what happened.

Tau feel overpowered. I recently got shot off the board while I was playing my custodes. Yes, custodes! (Points wise it was close and I made some blunders with regards to scoring and target priority).

I think line of sight blocking terrain would have greatly improved the situation. I'm thinking against Tau, you need to kill the marker lights. Without marker lights dense terrain can actually have an impact.

[niiai]

My list was inspiered by Nick Navati's list. However it is quite apparant I played it wrong because he deep strike his neophytes and charged with them. And I deep striked the other stuff. Also, I do not have 3 of the bike units so I guessed 2 detachments shold be enough. Here is the link to Nicks list. I can not state if it is good or bad. He did well with it. I had no idea what I was doing, but I was there to learn. Link to his list: www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-gold-standard-pt-1/

My list:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [97 PL, 9CP, 1,993pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Cult Creed
. Myriad Cult: Hunter's Instincts (3), Industrial Affinity (1)

Detachment Command Cost

+ Stratagems +

Gene-sire's Gifts [-2CP]: 2x Extra Relic

Leaders of the Cult [-1CP]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Kelermorph [4 PL, 95pts]: Proficient Planning: A Perfect Ambush, Relic: Wyrmtooth Rounds

Sanctus [3 PL, 70pts]: Cult Sniper Rifle

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [4 PL, 75pts]: Leader of the Cult, Warlord Trait: Alien Majesty

Magus [4 PL, 90pts]: Leader of the Cult, Power: Might From Beyond, Power: Psychic Stimulus, Psychic Familiar, Relic: The Crouchling, Warlord Trait: Prowling Agitant

Patriarch [7 PL, 150pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Mental Onslaught, Psychic Familiar, Relic: The Unwilling Orb, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Shadow Stalker

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [8 PL, 145pts]: Proficient Planning: A Trap Sprung
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid: 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges, 5x Cult Claws and Knife, 5x Frag Grenades
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Heavy Rock Cutter
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cult Claws and Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [4 PL, 75pts]: Proficient Planning: Lying in Wait
. 3x Acolyte Hybrid: 3x Autopistol, 3x Blasting Charges, 3x Cult Claws and Knife, 3x Frag Grenades
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): 2x Demolition Charge
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cult Claws and Knife

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Frag Grenades
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Frag Grenades, 2x Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Frag Grenades
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Frag Grenades, 2x Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Frag Grenades
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Frag Grenades, 2x Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 90pts]
. 7x Neophyte Hybrid: 7x Autogun, 7x Autopistol, 7x Blasting Charges, 7x Frag Grenades
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Seismic): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Frag Grenades, 2x Seismic Cannon
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Aberrants [8 PL, 160pts]: Proficient Planning: Our Time is Nigh
. 4x Aberrant: 4x Heavy Power Weapon
. Aberrant Hypermorph: Heavy Power Weapon

Hybrid Metamorphs [3 PL, 75pts]
. 4x Hybrid Metamorph (Hand Flamer): 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Frag Grenades, 4x Hand Flamer, 4x Metamorph Mutations
. Metamorph Leader: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Mutations

Hybrid Metamorphs [3 PL, 75pts]
. 4x Hybrid Metamorph (Hand Flamer): 4x Blasting Charges, 4x Frag Grenades, 4x Hand Flamer, 4x Metamorph Mutations
. Metamorph Leader: Hand Flamer, Metamorph Mutations

Purestrain Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: Proficient Planning: They Came From Below
. 10x Purestrain Genestealer: 10x Cult Claws and Talons

Purestrain Genestealers [7 PL, 140pts]
. 10x Purestrain Genestealer: 10x Cult Claws and Talons

+ Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [9 PL, 170pts]: Proficient Planning: From Every Angle
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser

Atalan Jackals [3 PL, 53pts]: Demolition Charge
. 3x Atalan Jackal (Small Arms): 3x Atalan Small Arms, 3x Blasting Charges
. Atalan Leader: Atalan Small Arms

+ Heavy Support +

Goliath Rockgrinder [6 PL, 110pts]: Heavy Seismic Cannon

++ Total: [97 PL, 9CP, 1,993pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe


What I started on the table:

1 Sanctus
3x 10 Neophytes
2x 10 Genstealers
1 Goliath Rockgrinder with Abberants in it.
2 ridgerunners who went into strategic reserves

He deployed his 3 units of stealth suits right up in my deployment zone. If I went first I could have charged 3 of them with a rockgrinder, abberants, 2 genstealers and the bikes. Instead he got first turn and killed everything except sanctus, and 17 neophytes.

I could have started behind the one piece of terrain in my deployment zone and hid for 2 turns. That might have been better. (I also do I think my units would fit there. But then I would not be able to get in points.) But when people deoploy that agressivly I feel like it comes down to the coin toss. Mind you, I could stil have lost if I went first.

[kazetanade]

Tau is legitimately overtuned. Horribly overtuned.

Stealths are a springboard where you can - they're not easy to break in but they also don't do too much at 1 guy left.

Don't give easy infantry for SMS or AFP, deepstrike shooters not melee. Use trucks to get into relative range.

[niiai]

Well I do try to build all comers lists. But it might be that I need to build something that beats Tau and then learn to play it VS other armies from there.

[kazetanade]

Ok so what I've had success doing:

- Bringing Industrial Affinity cult tactic to never suffer penalty on the key weapons in my army

- using double Demo Charges + Incinerators on T1 to strike vulnerable parts (exposed pathfinders, Broadsides, etc etc).

- 3d6 charge on a Stormsurge with 10 Abbies does work on it

- using LOSB to prevent majority of damage on vehicles, which are transports protecting my infantry

Things I think might work well:

- guys in a transport coming out to kill contents of a devilfish/ forward stealths, killing it, then Return To Shadows to evacuate the objective safely

- sacrificing Kellermorphs to kill Pathfinders n Ethereals instead of Suits with Wyrmtooth Rounds

- baiting Suits with ILOS to kill a 20 man Neophyte squad with fnp and Icon, then charging with Abbies from DS with Iconward buff to counteract the -2 from Tau.

[niiai]

How are you using double demo charges and incinerators turn 1? Pathfinder I can understand, because they are up close. But we have short range.

Second, I do not think charging 10 abbies 3d6 will challenge a storm surge. They have 2 stats one tat targets their battlesuitsone that targets a unit charging fire warriors. Both reduce charges by 2. Starting 8 away we would need to charge 10 on 3d6 removing the smallest. That is not reliable. Even if you combine an Iconward to reduce it to 9 it is very dicy. If the charge fail they mostly get shot. The storm surge has a lot of absurd weapons, include a D4 weapon. Perfect for abberants. And they hit on overwatch on 5, although we can turn that off.

[purestrain]

Hearing a lot about 3x Stormsurge in Tau sept armies, equip everything and the kitchen sink with NON LOS guns and use the strat to give the SS D missiles NON LOS targeting.

Seems gross and feels like it too

[kazetanade]

Feb 27, 2022 10:42:50 GMT niiai said:

How are you using double demo charges and incinerators turn 1? Pathfinder I can understand, because they are up close. But we have short range.

Second, I do not think charging 10 abbies 3d6 will challenge a storm surge. They have 2 stats one tat targets their battlesuitsone that targets a unit charging fire warriors. Both reduce charges by 2. Starting 8 away we would need to charge 10 on 3d6 removing the smallest. That is not reliable. Even if you combine an Iconward to reduce it to 9 it is very dicy. If the charge fail they mostly get shot. The storm surge has a lot of absurd weapons, include a D4 weapon. Perfect for abberants. And they hit on overwatch on 5, although we can turn that off.

SS is vehicle, no battlesuit keyword. It can't affect charges - hence Abbies are the best masher for SS. You need to drop a marker for deny OW though cuz it will kill the unit on charge.

You can throw 1 demo charge and Incinerator on shooting phase. When you charge, you throw the 2nd demo charge with Reckless Demolitions strategem. It's an attack with a shooting weapon, meaning it procs xfire (doesn't matter cuz 2+ to hit from strat) and xposed (because of Jackals own rules). If you're PP/Impassioned, you get +1 to hit too, which is really good complimentary dmg, and if you're Affinity, you can never be debuffed on hit.

purestrain tripsurge is lethal. I went up vs it, and only killed 1 Stormsurge (through luck) and 1 crisis suit MODEL before getting tabled. You need really solid LOSB terrain going into midfield, and lots of mechanized transports to survive that barrage.

[niiai]

My opponent told me the stormsurge had the battlesuit keyword. But looking at it now it does not.