Acolytes in the new codex

[wormlord666]

The acolytes were the backbone of the last codex and we all have tons of them, right? So how to use them now? I still belive they are solid and will play a big part in the new builds as well even though we now have options.

The Rock Saw seems like solid default got-to in terms of  heavy choice. Back up with industrial weapon strat or primus buff to get them wounds in. 
One (or 2 then) democharges will be present in every acosquad I take. They seem superstrsong with new strat to use them in combat.
Cutters? I have 5 unpainted (I started building them last year but switched to Nids this fall when they got so much new rules). I am thinking of re-build them to demos... 


What about the flamer bomb? We now can only take 15. But exposed is easy to get wich helps them a lot. And Primus can give re-roll 1 to wound. Single minded obsession is still there. If you go rusted Claw you can use spell to effectively give them ap-1. 
Will we se this again? 

[niiai]

I think acolytes are really good. They went up by one point and gained a point in cost. My aoclytes mostly just died, so the point in thoughness does not help that much. However the improived context around them makes them truly excelent. They hand wepaons also improved. And the creeds are so greta.

Mind you there is only one of the three weapon upgrades that has negative to hit, the cutters. There is a custom trait that ignore penalties to mining weapons, and that 3 wound cutter with no -1 to hit is most excelent.

It is worth pointing out that the melee version of the mining weapon strat only icrease S, not damge. Flamer bombs probably also have a home. If you cna get the benefitt of crossfire and eposed those 1d6 hits will have +1 on the wound roll witch will be 'amaze balls'. Mind you hybrids are virtually the same unit, but have fight on death. And the big bad squad comming out from reserves to fight (or out of rockgrinders) will probaly be abberants. Also, regular GSC are very good now. 4 attack base, 4++ and they benefit from kreeds? Sign me up! I think all 4 of them have some homes. Neophites as well. (Hand flamer acolytes porbably are better then shotgun neophytes. I have not done the math though.)

[kazetanade]

I don't think there's a need to do the maths - more hits (d6 vs 2 shots, and no hit roll) outweighs easier wound. The main thing is *price* - a Neo is 6pts. An Aco with Handflamer is 12. The calculation provably falls much closer, even if its still in Acolyte favour.

I think Abbys don't have a good home. They're annoying for 150pts if you can Whip their melee up into shape and are accompanied by an Abominant. 15 in Grinders feel a lot worse to me.

I'd expect to see Acos with Demo charges or other Industrials more often in those Grinders. Demo charge Acolytes have some real game.

[acehilator]

Pretty sure you can go wide with with Abbys. Instead of putting the 3d6 charge upgrade on Acos that get blown off the table after their alpha strike, just put it on 10 Abbys. Abo also only occupies one slot in a transport. Transfering buffs and psychic powers is easy now with Nexos with Cranial Implant, the Gestalt Conciousness stratagem, and Biophagus familiar.

Thikk Cult, anybody?


Acolytes are obviously still amazing, though.

Options galore in this codex.

[hivemind03]

I'll be interested to see how the melee mining weapons balance out. The saws seem the least appealing to me now with the increasing abundance of damage reduction.

What I will be happy about is if we don't need a huge number of Acos to be effective then maybe I already have enough of each option to swap out according to the meta. I have 10 or so Saws and I think 6 each of the others.

[infornography]

Well, the drills seem ideal for dealing with invulns. Not as good at dealing with big things with no invuln save and a toughness of less than 8, but better when they have very high toughness and/or invuln. By the way does anyone else find it odd that it has Sx2 even though you will never roll wound with it?

The cutters are ideal if you took Industrial Affinity as a myriad cult.

The saws are the all rounder. Not quite as powerful as the cutters, but don't lock you in on a specific cult ability or drop your accuracy.

I think they are pretty well balanced against each other, which is surprising really.

[gorsameth]

Someone on reddit the the math on acolyte weapons without any buffs or cult and the short answer is that saws are only better then cutters when attacking space marines, and I don't think our army is in need of more ways to kill those.
https://www.reddit.com/r/genestealercult/comments/s0d1lp/cultmath_acolyte_industrial_weapons/

The big problem with drills, even into ideal targets, is that your fishing for 6's. Your going to lose crucial combats where you would otherwise be fine simply because you didn't roll 6's.

[niiai]

*looks over at his current acolytes* Well that is disheartening. My first group of acolytes I did 5 saws and one drill. In the last wave I did do 50/50 saws and ccutters. I stil think I have some. Left over though.

I am really surpiced the drill comes out so well. But I do not think I have used drill parts to kitbash anything before, so that is good news for me personally. What are our sources for fishing for 6's? Do the Primus have some sort of re-roll?

[gorsameth]

Jan 12, 2022 10:30:56 GMT niiai said:

*looks over at his current acolytes* Well that is disheartening. My first group of acolytes I did 5 saws and one drill. In the last wave I did do 50/50 saws and ccutters. I stil think I have some. Left over though.

I am really surpiced the drill comes out so well. But I do not think I have used drill parts to kitbash anything before, so that is good news for me personally. What are our sources for fishing for 6's? Do the Primus have some sort of re-roll?

The Drill is only 'good' if your getting the extra mortal wounds, so you need to roll 6's. And we've all thrown 12 dice and not gotten a single 6 plenty of times.
Purely looking at the statistics the Drill looks good, but I would imagine the variance on it is much worse. And competitively variance is bad, because during a tournament your going to have a crucial charge where you just don't roll the 6's and it costs you the game.

[niiai]

I have had some trouble VS Death Guard and other damage - 1 things. I was really impressed with how much damage the drill did to death guard in that spreadsheet. I suppose the fact that you do not roll damage is quite huge there as well. But mortal wounds bypass saves.

Perhaps i can do a mix of saws and drills. I have so many banners in my groups. I need to remove them because banners are shite in 10 man aberrant squads I believe.

I am also unsure if my weapon teams have guns or not. I guess I will not be complete Wysiwyg.

[kazetanade]

gorsameth numbers indicate that Drills outperforms both for almost all profiles unless you're in that specific myriad cult. The numbers are close though, so you can swap for anti meta choices.

Numbers are also much heavier in favour of drills when looking at 3W and/or -1D.

[niiai]

I assume the drill is better VS 1 wound models as well. :-)

Luckaly, i have 1 novelty middel with drill, found 6 unused once, and have an 8th in the mail. I assume that will cover most of my needs in the new codex.

I have 6 cutters, but 3 of them are also holding a banner. With the 4th on the way. That should be enough.

Who knows, maybe banners prove quite good? I suspect not. They seem. To exspensive for 10 man units.

[hivemind03]

I would rather buy more bodies up front than take banners.

And yeah 8 of any weapon seems like enough. The lists I'm throwing together so far never have more than 20 Acos. I dont think Acolyte spam is the way anymore.

[wormlord666]

Jan 12, 2022 11:04:50 GMT kazetanade said:

gorsameth numbers indicate that Drills outperforms both for almost all profiles unless you're in that specific myriad cult. The numbers are close though, so you can swap for anti meta choices.

Numbers are also much heavier in favour of drills when looking at 3W and/or -1D.

I am convinced. I will have to paint those cutters and find something else to convert to democharges...

[hivemind03]

"Points update coming. Rumor is Custodes are getting adjusted. Stands to reason we might as well."

Why does the reddit guy say this? Are we expecting immediate changes in the next Chapter Approved (or whatever it's called now)?