First experience with Crushing Stampede - No Hive Guard!

[windwalkerranger]

I have some romantic flaws that prevent me from doing the stuff everyone does, and the hive mind now being crazy in love with the Hive Guard, I'm actively trying NOT to play them. Last night had an amazing game with my friend, who faced me playing Grey Knights. He was playing the army for the first time, and I was playing the Crushing Stampede after a couple days of theorycrafting for a non-HG list. I wanted to test so many things, and yet there were only so much points. This is always the case but with Crushing Stampede the issue seemed amplified. Below is my list:




++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [105 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++



+ Configuration +



Army of Renown - Crusher Stampede



Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)



Detachment Command Cost



Hive Fleet: Leviathan



+ HQ +



Neurothrope [5 PL, -1CP, 95pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Relic: The Void Crown, Stratagem: Alpha Leader-Beast, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Raging Influence



The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror



+ Troops +



Tyranid Warriors [13 PL, 276pts]: Adrenal Glands, Synaptic Link: Bioweapon Bond

. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon

. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon



Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons



Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons

. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons



+ Elites +



Haruspex [9 PL, 170pts]

. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size



Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]: Power: Aggressive Surge, Power: Smite



Zoanthropes [15 PL, 310pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Synaptic Link: Psychic Channeling

. 6x Zoanthrope: 6x Claws and Teeth



+ Heavy Support +



Scythed Hierodule [12 PL, 235pts]



Scythed Hierodule [12 PL, 235pts]



+ Flyer +



Harpy [8 PL, 165pts]: 2x Heavy Venom Cannon



++ Total: [105 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++



Created with BattleScribe



One of the issues with several of the lists I thought about was the lack of synapse, which doesn't mean too much in a Crushing Stampede list, but it takes away the potential of synaptic link chains. Another issue was lack of mobility, All those crazy carnifex lists trodging along the board would have given so much time to the opponent for any plan, but also would have handed over the initiative. Basically with a slow list, no matter how durable you are, you let the opponent make the game plan. Hive guard represent a great exception to this rule, as they would be so annoying to the opponent that it would be challenging to act the way they would want to. But I don't play hive guard so here we are.

To solve the issue, despite finding him overrated beforehand, the swarmlord had a solid spot this time on the list. His double move I felt was going to be essential. I thought about and tested a few list ideas to implement tyrant guard to protect it, but later decided duty eternal, great invuls, and potential application of fnp would be enough. But swarmlord alone was not enough. And I liked the harpy/crone even before the new AoR ruleset, so I tried to include a Harpy. Later, I wished I had used the crone in this specific case.

Going against Grey Knights I knew there was going to be tens of psykers on the board, and I was going to get denied all my powers if I didn't do something about it. This was the sole reason why I included the neurothroph/zoanthrophs combination. I wanted to give the zoey psy-link power to the neurothroph to reliably cast essential powers of onslaught and catalyst on whatever needed them. Later in the game I decided that I was going to play this combination against everyone and everything. The zoeys did so much smite damage against GK -despite their 5+++ against it- that they outshone every other unit in the game.

I also imagined 2 scythed hiredoules running towards the enemy with a maleceptor in the middle would create a nice anvil. Scythed H's were good, I felt like I didn't pay enough respect to their flamer until now. Ap-2 on that flamer is impactful. Thoughout the game I always averaged with the flamer, and opponent saved average as well, and it was still good.

BUT, with that particular map it was hard to deploy 2 hierodules and a maleceptor in a good position, let alone run them towards the enemy. Hier's are simply too large, and maleceptor is not small either, and there's simply not enough space to reliably move them. Deployment shennanigangs change everything, so early on I decided to split the hierodules (playing reconnaisance, maybe deployment being limited to a quarter amplified the issue). I still left room for maneuvering that, if needed, they could join in the middle of the board along with the maleceptor, but it never got there.

My friend made a list that included a Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight, and 2 more Dreads, with a dedicated techmarine. Also the Kaldor Draigo. These represented the hitters. There were several groups of Strike and Interceptor squads, all 5- man with the exception of 1x6 Interceptors. Also a group of purgators or whatever they are called, and a unit of terminators. One Dread, termins, purgators, and the librarian were set to reserve and we rolled and I got to go first.

THE GAME

The board was the new standard terrain layout. Each quarter had a large square ruin, and there were two smaller ruins in the middle. Also four smaller pieces in the middle of each edge that you'd be forgiven for thinking they are insignificant, but in this particular game they played major role.

My opponent got the monster-killing secondary, engage on all fronts, and the mission-specific recon. I got recon, octarius, and foolishly, warp ritual. I basically banked on the void crown + zoanthroph link on the neurothroph to reliably do the ritual, but as is well known by the wise people, plans tend to fail the first contact with the enemy.

My friend placed everything that didn't go into reserves in or behind the large area piece. Only exception was two small interceptor units, because the mission rules suddenly made fast attack units obsec. These units instead went to the small pieces I mentioned earlier, along the board edge. These were ready to advance into the two no-mans objectives at the first opportunity. I mush hand it over to my opponent, he always deploys perfectly and I've yet to see him giving me an opening in the first round. (He's also mastered the craft of touching-not touching in the combat phase to maximize the movement potential through pile ins and consolidates.)

I immediately noticed two things: his two dreadknights on the baord were going to pop-out and/or teleport to gain great los to all the important lanes, and I was going to have a hard time running 2 hierodules together. There simply werent enough space between the ruins. One was always going to stay behind, and even was going to fail to find a path to charge around the first one, if it came to combat. Grudgingly I split them to two, each ready to go to one free objective.

Then we rolled and I got to go first.
I was happy with this, in this instance, because I knew that I had to park on these objectives and try to lure my opponent to react to what I was doing, instead of playing reactively myself. So I decided on a big alpha strike. Both hierodules went their seperate ways, one in particular advanced and turned around the middle ruins. The swarmlord charged to safety in there to launch it. neurothoph retreated outside of the deny range and applied onslaught and catalyst to my misile. Maleceptor tried to keep up but fell short, still grandted d3 extra attacks to it. Zoanthrophs also found a line to one of the interceptor squads on the edge. Everything went well, and after spraying some hierodule acid and big smite from zoeys and one charge later, I killed one interceptor squad (hierodule overrun to relative safety), reduced the other to 1 man (which became significant later) and was sitting on no-mans objectives. Alpha strike complete. I had the choice to try to charge the GMNK but it was risky 8. Oh well.

Opponent round saw some retaliation shots against the hierodule reducing it to 12 wounds, and that was basically it. Some shuffling around, however, and the lone survivor interceptor found its way to the objective captured by my scyhted.

Turn 2 on my play, I used the 1-cp to make it obsec strategem on my hierodule to capture back the objective BEFORE the points are calculated and this flipped the game around. I scored 15. On his turn he got 5. This repeated in the next round as well, and opened the points gap large enough. I charged in with the wounded hierodule to kill another interceptor squad that came out to play, and killed a brotherhood squad that teleported towards my other heirodule through the combination of hierodule + haruspex. This move however carried both of my monsters far away from the action and it was evident by now that, one hierodule was going to die and the other was so far away from the maleceptor that the bubbe-plan was never going to get realized. The wounded hierodule charged in and wounded GMND down to 8 hp, but that was it. A small warrior group killed the lone intereptor as well. I did some recon, and some octarius in both turns too!.

Turn 2 on his play something spectacular happens and shadow in the warp essentially denies ALL his psychic phase. Only a single power was cast, which was denied by the swarmlord. This was a major swing point. Still, serious shooting and combat saw my hierodule dead (fought again to bring the GMND to 4). Draigo also got botched his casting and dropped to 4 wounds. My maleceptor was shot to 6 wounds, and my warrior group sitting on home objective doing actions was first shot and than charged down to 3 warriors remanining.

Turn 3 on my side I did everything right except roling 10 or so 1's and 2's to wound, and despite using the reroll to wound strat, I failed to kill anything. Swarmy failed psy-action again. But by now  the points gap was too large. And it was 5 am in the morning. My opponent did some calculations and even in the best case scenario for him it was going to end 68-63, so he conceded to save us time.

AFTERTHOUGHTS:

* The Maleceptor bubble: Though I love the idea, I will have to give up on this for now. Especially for hierodules running forward. Maybe it's better in a gun-line scenario.

* The Harpy: was amazing, scored my points through recon, and charged up to finish GMND and failed. Its mines did 1 mortal to kaldor, but its HVC did nothing, so I felt that Crone would have done so much better in this specific case. I think I will always play a flier.

*Zoanthrophs: Most of the damage to 3++ opposition came from smites, and zoeys were the primary casters. Also helped spread the synaptic link +1 to hit to the other side of the board. I always loved them and I think they still have a place in Crushing Stampede lists.

*Big warrior group: I had to use them as action monkeys, they did 0 damage, so I could have used cheaper variations.

*Haruspex: was good! killed some, and endured, and almost captured enemy home objective.

*Scythed hierodules: I love them now.

Will add more when I have the time.

[windwalkerranger]

Additional Thoughts:

*Had to retreat with my Neurothroph because I HAD TO succesfully do the alpha strike to get my hierodule into safe position with overrun, or my opponent was simply going to pop out with everything and kill me. So I couldn't risk getting onslaught denied, despite the psy-link of zoeys and 9+ being undeniable. This retreat however, combined with swarmlord advancing to the middle ruins meant that the role of warp ritual fell on swarmlord. Throughout the game he attempted it twice, and got denied in both cases. ALSO, the warlord trait on the neurothroph to give nearby monsters exploding 6's never got into play, so in this specific case any other trait would have been better.

*In fact now that I think about it, between objectives (recon requires you to START your movement in position and be away from the middle of the board, while warp ritual wants you to be within 6" of the center, etc), command-phase actions like synaptic-links and reroll auras, shadow in the warp/deny ranges, maleceptor bubble, 6" requirement of the swarmlord double move etc., there simply are too many positioning requirements and variables in place to make all of them work together. Maybe you CAN develop some sort of deployment/movement plan to make it all work, but the slightest change required during the gameplay would ruin it. Thereby I think I will give less weight to such things in the future when making lists.

*The strat to make a unit obsec is AMAZING, considering that you can do that in your command phase before the points for capturing objectives are calculated. It won me the game when I made the hierodule parked on the objective obsec, which took it back from the lone interceptor survivor.

*Duty Eternal saved so many wounds. 5++ also came into play but was not that significant (helped harpy and haruspex survive though).

[purestrain]

6 zoeys is way too much points for changing d3+d3 to d3+3, also warriors probably dont need kit and only 4 man packs to keep transhuman to 1cp imo.

Good showing though.

[windwalkerranger]

Dec 26, 2021 15:30:59 GMT purestrain said:

6 zoeys is way too much points for changing d3+d3 to d3+3, also warriors probably dont need kit and only 4 man packs to keep transhuman to 1cp imo.

Good showing though.

Agreed on both, particularly the latter one. Regarding the zoey count, though, I believed/felt lack of screening was going to be serious issue, and I wanted them in the midfield to help with the power direction deficit. Between the swarmlord double move, 12" move of hierodules, and harpy, however, maybe 5 could be done as well. Zoeys were shot only once, and received a single wound, throughout the whole game. I think removing the maleceptor and one zoey and adding in a flyrant could be good in this list. Even more mobility and threat saturation.

[garg]

Warriors can do decent chip damage, I had a similar squad of 9 do quite significant damage over the course of a game after my give guard got heavily reduced by flat d3 tank ace basilisk.
Especially now they can independently get to hitting on 2s and the increased defense from 5++ and transhuman. They could even work as TTL picks with swarmy and one of the dules.
I could see their main problem being that they can sink a lot of CP.

[aruair]

Thanks for the write up. This was very helpful and a good read. I appreciate you sharing how the double Hierodules worked in this list. I’m curious to know why you didn’t take the Flyrant that ignores invuls in this list. I feel like that would have been a better investment than the Haruspex or second Hierodule. What do you think you will change about this list going forward?

[windwalkerranger]

Dec 28, 2021 5:23:54 GMT aruair said:

Thanks for the write up. This was very helpful and a good read. I appreciate you sharing how the double Hierodules worked in this list. I’m curious to know why you didn’t take the Flyrant that ignores invuls in this list. I feel like that would have been a better investment than the Haruspex or second Hierodule. What do you think you will change about this list going forward?

Well, this has been my first match against Grey Knights, and while I did a quick look their units I still underestimated the prevalence of invul saves. Draigo was always 3++ and GMDK could have it for a round as well. And I didn't know about their weapons too well either, turns out the great majority of the heavy shooting is s7, with some s8 cannons on Dreadknights. Having played against other marines and DE I wanted to have some t8 bugs on the board protected by the Maleceptor's strategem. Well it turned out to be a waste in this particular instance, and I think I will shelf the maleceptor until I fight against DE.

So I have already removed one zoanthroph and the maleceptor to bring in a winged hive tyrant. I'm torn between the no-invul boneswords tyrant and a quad-devourer + voracious ammo + smite + scream infantry killer tyrant at the moment.

But the haruspex was really good in this game. Access to reroll-to-hit through a strategem, T8, built-in regeneration and potential d3 extra attacks through the new psy-power which in turn make d3 attack each, are all amazing. I also wanted a lot of t8 wounds in the list. But if I ever was to remove the haruspex, I would instead replace it with a toxicrene. Especially against DE. The primary reason is... I want to try it . But I also think the no-fall-back strategem and the built-in-acid blood are good against armies with strong melee infantry. In Crushing Stampede it should survive a turn, and thereby tie a problematic unit for two rounds. And even should deal some mortal wounds along the way in addition to its chip damage from normal attacks. 

[niiai]

Good write up.

1. Did you ever do the breaking through stratagem? It seems very good with harpies/cronies and excelent of a hierodule.

2. Why did you want a crone over a harpy. I have a glued up crone, and boy that grass is green.

3. How do you like to balance non heavy support monsters? I do not own all, but most of my monsters (all?) are in heavy support or HQ.

4. How did you find balancing non monsters to monster units during army creation? It is bugging me.

[windwalkerranger]

Dec 29, 2021 1:41:22 GMT niiai said:

Good write up.

1. Did you ever do the breaking through stratagem? It seems very good with harpies/cronies and excelent of a hierodule.

2. Why did you want a crone over a harpy. I have a glued up crone, and boy that grass is green.

3. How do you like to balance non heavy support monsters? I do not own all, but most of my monsters (all?) are in heavy support or HQ.

4. How did you find balancing non monsters to monster units during army creation? It is bugging me.

Hello! Thanks for the compliments.

1-I charged his GMDK with my scythed, which was the only time that I could use it. I completely forgot about it :=(. Later I also charged in with Harpy and Maleceptor but by then I was completely out of CP. There were other things that I forgot as well, like shooting the small weapon on the Harpy, both in the shooting phase and in melee in the next round. And TWICE in that game GMDK was repaired back from low 1-3 to medium 4-7 HP. If I used that strategem or added another chip damage he might have died and the case would have been closed. That being said, despite starting with 10 CP and not using the maleceptor strategem even once, I quickly ran out of them.

2- In this particular instance the Harpy was locked in close combat for a couple of rounds (in the past it usually died in melee and this rarely happened, but 5++ and duty eternal saved its winged axs), and HVC can't be shot into melee, while all of the crone's weapons can be fired into melee. And with that speed and the pressure to tie down/force fall back on a unit for a round is so high that I believe I will have to charge my flier into something. In the future I can see this happening alot, my flier charging into melee and surviving a round to have the potential to shoot its ranged weapons in melee combat.

3-Melceptor turns out to be situational and hard to maneuver. Haruspex's T8 is a serious thing. I think T8 monsters are so good with Crushing Stampede that the Tervigon, despite not being able to take gaunts, is beginning to look attractive to me. Thinking of D3 extra attacks from warlord trait, plus additional d3 from psy power, -1 to wound relic, and warrior link... One of the worst melee profiles in our monstrous units suddenly becomes 3+2d3 attacks hitting on 3+ rerolling 1's with d6 damage... Fliers are also nice as I mentioned. Flying tyrant I think is good, can't decide between dakka + voracious + smite + scream and no-invul relic melee...

4-Once I decided not to play Hive guard AND to have Zoanthroph + Neurothoph combination, my range of decisions were severely  limited anyways, so there wasn't much to think about. There were still some rough spots, though, like I can't split the large warrior group in this formation, or I can't swap maleceptor for a trio of venomthrophs and a couple of lictors. I think a good idea is to think in terms of secondary objectives. I wanted zoans and neurothroph specifically to use warp ritual, but chose the wrong enemy to do it against (wasnt sure what my friend was going to show up with, it was either Grey Knights or Necrons). I think balancing monster-non monster units is easier than trying to find a good solution for secondary objectives. This mission had recon, which allwoed any unit to perform a recon action, and Harpy was great because turn 1 he flew into a no-man's land quarter into safety and turn 2 he reconned, and scored me solid 3. On turn 4 where we dropped the game I had reconned 3 quarters and got 10 points for it. I could probably maximize it had the game continued. But this won't always be the case and it'll have to be Engage on all fronts, where I think we definately need at least 2 fast units in addtion to swarmlord double move shennanigans.

non-monsters also need to play the screening and teleport/deepstrike prevention role, which I think is the achilles heel of the new AoR...

[niiai]

We loose a lot in an armoy of renown. Not our big flashy units, but the smaller once who actually winns us the missions and controll movement.

I certaly found this an interesting read up. I did not know the Haruspects was T8. I do not own the model. Regarding the Tervigon it can make babies, you just need to sett aside points. The rules are a bit undecided if they have objective secure and the 5++.

I want a malacemptor model though. The synaptic link it has is very good.

As someone who has played blood claws who can only charge the closest enemy unit the non synapse is a bit of a problem for me. Anything that hampers choise is a big no-no. Pack to many of them and you loose choises.

Cudoes for trying without the hiveguard. I am always a big fan of trying new things, because you do not know the result before you try. There was a period recndtly in 9th where people moved away from hiveguard and took exocrines instead. This army of renown changes so much. Perhaps we can throw away the shackels of beeing a shooting army with lying pr that claims we are melee. Perhaps we can finaly be melee.

[brianb9999]

Dec 29, 2021 11:43:12 GMT niiai said:

As someone who has played blood claws who can only charge the closest enemy unit the non synapse is a bit of a problem for me. Anything that hampers choise is a big no-no. Pack to many of them and you loose choises.

I have not had this happen to me once in about 5 games so far. I have 12 units in my list, half of which are synapse, and you want them somewhat spread out for maximum flexibility with your synaptic links. Also, remember IB doesn't trigger if you're outside of synapse, it's only if you're 24" outside, so yeah, it's more of an exception than the rule.

[No One]

niiai said:

undecided if they have objective secure

They don't.

Perhaps we can throw away the shackels of beeing a shooting army with lying pr that claims we are melee. Perhaps we can finaly be melee.

I mean, I don't think you can build a good army with this without either shooting or melee elements.

[piersonsmuppet]

Dec 29, 2021 15:08:22 GMT No One said:

I mean, I don't think you can build a good army with this without either shooting or melee elements.

Agreed. At the minimum, shooting is needed to crack transports and melee is needed to bully objectives.

[windwalkerranger]

Dec 29, 2021 11:43:12 GMT niiai said:

We loose a lot in an armoy of renown. Not our big flashy units, but the smaller once who actually winns us the missions and controll movement.
...
I want a malacemptor model though. The synaptic link it has is very good.
...
As someone who has played blood claws who can only charge the closest enemy unit the non synapse is a bit of a problem for me. Anything that hampers choise is a big no-no. Pack to many of them and you loose choises.    

I think we are still fine in terms of primary objectives and movement if we pay attention to it during the list-making. A swarmlord seems mandatory. I always thought it overpriced before, but now I think in AoR we'll need it for sure. The question regarding him is, whether tyrant guard should be included or not.

But the shortcoming is evident in the secondary objectives. It's hard to simply take action monkey units. Each lictor will need a MC. Warrior groups will have too many roles and are slow. Taking "to the last" is also riskier than in a non-AoR environment because each and everyone of our limited number of units have to be active or the army will be short on meaningful impacts per turn. Force projection will simply be too low. I think fast MC units like flyers and winged hive tyrant + swarmlord double move AND/OR deepstriking in a Tyrannocyte or using some Mawlocs will give us the option of Engage on All Fronts. The relatively low number of units can also allow for Grind them Down. The secondary objective game will really be tough no matter what, though...

Maleceptor synaptic link's only real shine for me is the damage reroll, and I don't think it's good for d3 or d3+3 damage, but is really good for D6 damage. There are, however, only a handfull of d6 damage options. Like some scything talon versions on our big guys. The most interesting one for me is the big gun on the tyrannofex. That guy is also t8 with 14 wounds so I'm thinking on testing him out some day along with a maleceptor.

I don't think non-synapse charge will often be an issue. Such a situation should be rare enough that you wouldn't want to skew your list around a solution for it. But that's why I love zoanthrophs in this list, they are a great midfield synapse unit and a nuisance when needed that can sit on an objective. Especially good I think in missions with a central objective. The risk however is that there's nothing to cover for them. So the only real protection can be oversaturation of threats, and locking key targets in melee. That's why I think we need 2 big scary melee monsters. Maybe scythed hierodule + haruspex OR toxicrene, in addition to at least one flyer.

If we get the first turn we should sit on objectives and force the opponent to react, if we get second we should get a big alpha strike. I think this situation makes the redeploy warlord trait essential and I think I will always take it in the future, unless another very specific tool is needed.