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Post by bevakes on Dec 19, 2021 9:06:51 GMT
Hey folks!
I've recently gotten back into 40k and am playing the correct army this time.
I've put together a 2000pt (100PL) list and am looking for some constructive criticism.
Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [100 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts]
Configuration
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Hive Fleet
. Other: Bio-metallic Cysts, Pack Hunters
Stratagems
Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact
HQ
Broodlord [8 PL, 140pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Relic: The Ymgarl Factor, Synaptic Link: Mastery of the Shadows
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 230pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Relic: Xenogenic Acid, Toxin Sacs, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Adaptive Biology, Wings
Troops
Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Acid Maw, 2x Flesh Hooks, 8x Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
. 8x Genestealer: 8x Rending Claws
Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Acid Maw, 2x Flesh Hooks, 8x Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
. 8x Genestealer: 8x Rending Claws
Genestealers [8 PL, 166pts]: 2x Acid Maw, Extended Carapace, 2x Flesh Hooks, 8x Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs
. 8x Genestealer: 8x Rending Claws
Ripper Swarms [6 PL, 135pts]: Spinemaws
. 9x Ripper Swarm: 9x Claws and Teeth
Elites
Hive Guard [6 PL, 135pts]
. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon
Venomthropes [5 PL, 99pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes
Fast Attack
Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer
Heavy Support
Carnifexes [12 PL, 240pts]
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Monstrous Scything Talons, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Enhanced Senses, Monstrous Scything Talons, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
Trygon Prime [10 PL, 175pts]: Biostatic Rattle
Dedicated Transport
Tyrannocyte [6 PL, 140pts]: 5x Venom Cannon
Total: [100 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts]
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Post by No One on Dec 19, 2021 11:32:06 GMT
8 man stealers is too few: always want to be >10 for attacks (well, outside very niche things that probably aren't good). Toxin sacs, flesh hooks and carapace just make the problem worse.
Rippers are just bad for anything other than existing.
What's the plan with the t-cyte/t-prime?
Bio-metallic cysts/pack hunters is a niche combo that you haven't build around enough to be worthwhile (with Levi sup, I'd argue it's never worthwhile, but that's a different thing). But like, you have 3 units who don't really get much from it, 2 that gets basically nothing from it, and the rest get actually nothing from it.
Ymgarl is bad, xeno is mediocre, bad when you don't want to be in combat. Double devs is also just a mediocre flyrant. 3 hive guard no buffs aren't going to do much. Adaptive requires you to not die in a turn and is generally not impactful enough when it does trigger, especially to protect a dakkaflyrant. Adaptive physiology would definitely be better.
Also, don't build a list for both pts and PL, it'll result in something that's bad for both.
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Post by bevakes on Dec 21, 2021 10:06:22 GMT
8 man stealers is too few: always want to be >10 for attacks (well, outside very niche things that probably aren't good). Toxin sacs, flesh hooks and carapace just make the problem worse. > I did overlook the extra attack thing. I'll rearrange for bigger squads. When you say those extras make it worse do you mean that none of them are worth taking? Rippers are just bad for anything other than existing. > Yeah, they were an idea to pop up later in the game to hole an objective What's the plan with the t-cyte/t-prime? > Unsure, to be honest. I was thinking of using the t-cyte to drop in something and then float about, shooting holes in troops. The Prime I wanted to race up the field and hit the biggest threat on the table. Bio-metallic cysts/pack hunters is a niche combo that you haven't build around enough to be worthwhile (with Levi sup, I'd argue it's never worthwhile, but that's a different thing). But like, you have 3 units who don't really get much from it, 2 that gets basically nothing from it, and the rest get actually nothing from it. > Ah okay, I'll relook at hive fleets. I was leaning toward Jormangandur for the extra saves. Thematic with my colour scheme, but not actually matching the original colours. Ymgarl is bad, xeno is mediocre, bad when you don't want to be in combat. Double devs is also just a mediocre flyrant. 3 hive guard no buffs aren't going to do much. Adaptive requires you to not die in a turn and is generally not impactful enough when it does trigger, especially to protect a dakkaflyrant. Adaptive physiology would definitely be better. > A lot to unpack in this one - What would be a more beneficial relic choice for broody and for tyrants? I know tyrants are extremely variable, but I've also magnetised all the weapon options so I've got wiggle room. Related; what would be a more beneficial combination of weapons? I like the devs, but a melee option is probably wise. How do you go about buffing guard? The Impaler Cannon seems really good to me and I want to make the most out of it. And adaptive physiology definitely looks like a great choice Also, don't build a list for both pts and PL, it'll result in something that's bad for both. > This was just a happy accident. I was aiming for 2000 points Lastly, sorry if I did the quote/reply thing wrong. I'm super new to message boards |
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Post by No One on Dec 21, 2021 10:31:43 GMT
When you say those extras make it worse do you mean that none of them are worth taking? Pretty much: they're either too expensive (toxin), don't do anything helpful (flesh hooks) or are actively detrimental (carapace). Yeah, that's fine, but 9 man and spinefists don't help with that, and in fact could end up as a hindrance, massively increasing your footprint. T-cyte isn't any good as a shooting platform, and doesn't do enough to just...exist. It's a deep strike option, but generally overcosted for that because strat reserve/lictors exist and we don't have a giant amount of stuff that wants to DS anyway. Trygon is slow-ish (9", but terrain) and not durable, so doesn't run up the board well. Also being prime is just wasted pts for that. DS with AG is OK, but will often be screened onto something meh. Also look into Leviathan supplement. Jorm is generally meh, because...well, basically everything wants to either advance and/or charge, and stealers in particular wants to do both of those and don't get much from cover 'cause 5+/5++. Depends what exactly you want to do: I'm personally a fan of double scy tal and monstrous size for a decent murder flyrant. A bit lacking in attacks to be generally strong, but is very strong into non-invul elites (admittedly rare), but still fairly decent otherwise. Res barb is a strong support relic, just generically good. Otherwise there's not really any good generic relics. Synaptic links, single minded for double tap, Kronos/Levi for rrs and explodes. I do [quote]Text[/quote], or [quote author="@person"]Text[/quote] |
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Post by beetlejuice on Dec 24, 2021 7:58:57 GMT
Res barb is a strong support relic, just generically good. Otherwise there's not really any good generic relics. Xenogenic acid with +1-2d3 attacks has legs I think, especially for trygon prime |
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Post by kubimaniac on Dec 24, 2021 8:43:18 GMT
Prime cannot be targeted from the psychic power so it can get more attacks only from the WLT
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Post by No One on Dec 24, 2021 9:24:20 GMT
It can't get rrs, the +D3 A is any model.
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Post by kubimaniac on Dec 24, 2021 9:30:07 GMT
It can't get rrs, the +D3 A is any model. Correct, I apologise. The multiple sources of rules melt my brain slowly. |
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Post by bevakes on Dec 30, 2021 9:19:52 GMT
I reworked the list a bit based on what you folks said here.
Let me know if this is better!
Battalion Detachment
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Hive Fleet Other:
Metamorphic Regrowth,
Synaptic Augmentation
+ Stratagems +
Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact
+ HQ +
Broodlord [8 PL, 140pts]:
Power: Catalyst
Power: Smite
Relic: Resonance Barb
Synaptic Link: Mastery of the Shadows
Warlord
Hive Tyrant [12 PL, 240pts]:
Monstrous Scything Talons, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
Power: Onslaught
Power: Paroxysm
Power: Smite,
Relic: Pathogenesis,
Synaptic Link: Malicious Direction
Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Wings
+ Troops +
Genestealers [12 PL, 156pts]:
12x Genestealer:
3x Acid Maw, 12x Scything Talons, 12x Rending Claws
Genestealers [12 PL, 156pts]:
12x Genestealer:
3x Acid Maw, 12x Scything Talons, 12x Rending Claws
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
3x Claws and Teeth
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
3x Claws and Teeth
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
3x Claws and Teeth
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [6 PL, 135pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon
Zoanthropes [8 PL, 160pts]:
Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite,
Synaptic Link: Psychic Channeling
3x Claws and Teeth
+ Fast Attack +
Gargoyles [3 PL, 70pts]
. 10x Gargoyle: 10x Blinding Venom, 10x Fleshborer
+ Heavy Support +
Carnifexes [12 PL, 300pts]
. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Chitin Thorns, Enhanced Senses, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Chitin Thorns, Enhanced Senses, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Thresher Scythe, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
Trygon Prime [11 PL, 200pts]: Biostatic Rattle, Synaptic Link: Feed, Toxin Sacs
Fortification Network 7 PL, 160pts
Sporocyst [7 PL, 160pts]:
5x Venom Cannon,
Mucolid Spore
Spore Mine
Total: 106 PL, 11CP, 1,995pts
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Post by No One on Dec 30, 2021 14:08:10 GMT
So first up, if you want to run synaptic augmentation, you want to run the low shot count weapons i.e. venom cannons on the fex/flyrant. The other big thing is all of the bonus extra upgrades you're taking that're either mediocre or not really great with what you're running, which adds up: I think you could pretty easily get an extra 40-50 pts with basically no change, then the rippers are cut-able, deathspitters are almost certainly better than VCs on the sporocyst 'cause blast/squishy chassis, and you've got enough for a full extra fex or something.
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Post by bevakes on Jan 1, 2022 7:53:33 GMT
So first up, if you want to run synaptic augmentation, you want to run the low shot count weapons i.e. venom cannons on the fex/flyrant. The other big thing is all of the bonus extra upgrades you're taking that're either mediocre or not really great with what you're running, which adds up: I think you could pretty easily get an extra 40-50 pts with basically no change, then the rippers are cut-able, deathspitters are almost certainly better than VCs on the sporocyst 'cause blast/squishy chassis, and you've got enough for a full extra fex or something. Oh, right - it's only a single die that's re-rolled, so that makes sense. That's a pretty easy change and should free up a few points too because Devs are expensive. The upgrades you're talking about - it that mostly on the fexes? I'm definitely open to switching things around or taking them a bit more vanilla if that's the more points wise approach. My only concern with freeing up points to add more models is that everything in this list is everything I own haha If I could free up about 200 points I'd love to add a Dimachaeron, of only because they look incredible. But also I've modelled my stealers and my broodlord with Scything Talons and rending claws, and the Dima fits in with that theme. |
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Post by No One on Jan 1, 2022 8:38:35 GMT
The upgrades you're talking about - it that mostly on the fexes? I'm definitely open to switching things around or taking them a bit more vanilla if that's the more points wise approach. Fexes mainly and flyrant: ES and spore cysts are good upgrades, AG and bone mace are fine but definitely something to think about dropping, toxin and chitin thorns aren't good. Similarly flyrant TS is OK with a stacked flyrant where it's quite nice for certain breakpoints: going hybrid (which is also better with monstrous rending claws if you want melee+gun) it's still OK, 'cause MRC fish for 6s anyway with full rrs, but is also totally cutable. Tyrant link is also overpriced and fairly niche. Toxin on trygon is similar situation to the flyrant, but it's also 10 pts vs 5: take AG to give yourself DS options. Stealers are good, 'cause freeby options. If you've got no more models though...bit rough. |
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