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Post by Shadowwolf on Dec 15, 2021 11:45:58 GMT
2. Its a character means it can never be shot unless sniper, and it's not sniper squishy |
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Post by brianb9999 on Dec 15, 2021 12:06:49 GMT
So I ran a test game against my Blood Angels, and the harpy was hilarious. Souped it up to 6 attacks, +1 to hit, 4++. Easily took out a unit of incursors and grabbed an objective first turn, and took every ounce of death company, chaplain, and 3 van vets to get through the 4++ -1 damage. Which then left them in a bad position to get murdered by the 8 attack, -1 damage, -1 to wound flyrant. Wow, that was fun (and depressing for the BA). Nids went second and tables BA by turn 4, final 97-60.
Regarding the harpy, is it’s wording considered “fight last” in the current rules? If so, that’s a BIG deal.
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Post by hivefleetkaiju on Dec 15, 2021 12:59:41 GMT
Eh, knights just got straight 'count as more models', I'm not sure I'd read much into this.
It's pretty amusing that Titanic Knights only count as 10 models, while Trygons or Tfexes count as more. Powercreep moves so quickly these days. Scoring is going to be the hardest part of this army honestly - Leviathan scoring shenanigans only mitigate the weakness, as you said. We're still reliant on Warriors to score, much like the Ork AoR is reliant on these supercharged bikes. Luckily the main secondary scoring options don't feel touched - Lictors and now Fliers can help with EoAF, Lictors, Ravs, and Warriors do ROD just fine. For now. It's back to the 3rd obj which is giving problems yet again. For Primary, other than our shenanigans, it's up to Warriors to score, or MC literally clearing out the obj. But yessssss, let's hope the changes continue to be thematic and not disappointing. With the upcoming ROD changes I wonder how effective a small unit of Venomthropes will now be for objectives & actions in the backfield, now they have access to an invuln. Stacking -1 to hit, -1D, and 5++ together on nearby monsters adds up. While our monsters are counted as more models, the no. of count as models decreased when they lose wounds |
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Post by purestrain on Dec 15, 2021 14:25:05 GMT
So I ran a test game against my Blood Angels, and the harpy was hilarious. Souped it up to 6 attacks, +1 to hit, 4++. Easily took out a unit of incursors and grabbed an objective first turn, and took every ounce of death company, chaplain, and 3 van vets to get through the 4++ -1 damage. Which then left them in a bad position to get murdered by the 8 attack, -1 damage, -1 to wound flyrant. Wow, that was fun (and depressing for the BA). Nids went second and tables BA by turn 4, final 97-60. Regarding the harpy, is it’s wording considered “fight last” in the current rules? If so, that’s a BIG deal. Yes, the harpys rule forces fight last on anyone within its range |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Dec 15, 2021 15:21:36 GMT
Carnifex are going to get a big boost come GT 2022 when used in conjunction with the CS rules. FW models go up to 3VP a kill, while Carnifex stay at 1 VP. They may not be pushing use now, but they are going to be a big part of a CS list in the future. -1 to-hit on a T7/8W/3+/5++/5+++(catalyst)/-1D body makes for a pretty self-sufficient obj/engage scorer, and 1 CP transhuman to negate 8S+ w/ +1 to-wound buffs/strats is going to make them a tough cookie to deal with for 1 VP.
For GT 2021 Non-FW lists, the most efficient CS core will probably consist of SL, 2-3 Carnifex, 1 Malceptor, 1 Haruspex, and poss 1 Mawloc (last depends on how well it scores once people are used to it popping on non-obsec units). Tyrgon Prime looks to be pretty fun in Levi with -1 to-wound and 8-12 attacks w/ d6 dmg and dmg rr's. Behemoth is the only fleet besides Levi that will see play w/ CS. SoT and UH are just good enough to make the swap worthwhile if not taking HG or TG. Jorm could also be fun w/ tyrannocytes; 5+ full rr's on 5 VC won't be competitive and future shooting being on 4+ from Warrior link if not dealt with won't be competitive, but I think it's good enough to at least be playable in a semi-competitive setting.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 15, 2021 20:47:58 GMT
Ignore Catalyst because the Carnifexen's main strength is that it's Ubiquitous - doesnt matter which you shoot, they all die the same, and you have 6-9 of them. The fact they're on 1vp is a big deal, although it's debatable that 1 Barbed Heirodule is roughly equivalent to 3 Carnifexen in impact.
Something I think will be interesting assuming we go the full MC route (with only 1-2 Warrior units max)
-1x Mawloc for obj stealing purposes
-2x Harpies because max of 2 Flier slots
-6x Carnifexen
-1-2x Exocrenes
-1x Toxicrene
-1x Haruspex
-2x Flyrants
Maleceptor is kinda worthless since most of these boys are not T8, meaning we get not great gains for reducing Melta down, and dont touch most other anti-tank guns. A Flyrant given the leviathan -1 to wound relic with AoR buffs would be tremendously difficult to kill - if we were going Kronos or Behemoth instead, then it'd be a single Flyrant with damage output gains stuffed on him, but I think the increased durability paired with existing potential damage options is already sufficient, and stacking more damage from Behemoth is overkill/unecessary.
It's also been math'ed out that +1 to hit > rr damage in general so... Maleceptor doesnt have a good point. Which is surprising on that front, but I guess it is what it is?
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Post by purestrain on Dec 15, 2021 21:28:56 GMT
Ignore Catalyst because the Carnifexen's main strength is that it's Ubiquitous - doesnt matter which you shoot, they all die the same, and you have 6-9 of them. The fact they're on 1vp is a big deal, although it's debatable that 1 Barbed Heirodule is roughly equivalent to 3 Carnifexen in impact. Something I think will be interesting assuming we go the full MC route (with only 1-2 Warrior units max) -1x Mawloc for obj stealing purposes -2x Harpies because max of 2 Flier slots -6x Carnifexen -1-2x Exocrenes -1x Toxicrene -1x Haruspex -2x Flyrants Maleceptor is kinda worthless since most of these boys are not T8, meaning we get not great gains for reducing Melta down, and dont touch most other anti-tank guns. A Flyrant given the leviathan -1 to wound relic with AoR buffs would be tremendously difficult to kill - if we were going Kronos or Behemoth instead, then it'd be a single Flyrant with damage output gains stuffed on him, but I think the increased durability paired with existing potential damage options is already sufficient, and stacking more damage from Behemoth is overkill/unecessary. It's also been math'ed out that +1 to hit > rr damage in general so... Maleceptor doesnt have a good point. Which is surprising on that front, but I guess it is what it is? If you want that many HS, you gotta go bat or two patrols. |
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Post by trashcan01 on Dec 15, 2021 21:37:19 GMT
Hello there Hive Mind.
Does Army of Renown need to follow the usual Detachment rules? Like, having 3x obligatory Troop choices (Warriors) for Battalion Detachment?
Or is Army of Renown a special type of Detachment, with the "more Monsters than non-monster units", "no Swarm" and "2+ wound models only" limitations?
Stupid question from a simple life form - I know. Praise the Hive!
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Dec 15, 2021 21:37:21 GMT
I think a battalion with 3 min squads of warriors + their synaptic link is the way to go. Getting our MCs hitting better is never a bad plan
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Dec 15, 2021 21:38:02 GMT
Hello there Hive Mind. Does Army of Renown need to follow the usual Detachment rules? Like, having 3x obligatory Troop choices (Warriors) for Battalion Detachment? Or is Army of Renown a special type of Detachment, with the "more Monsters than non-monster units", "no Swarm" and "2+ wound models only" limitations? Stupid question from a simple life form - I know. Praise the Hive! We need to follow all normal detachment restrictions for the crusher stampede army of renown. |
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Post by purestrain on Dec 15, 2021 21:49:28 GMT
Hello there Hive Mind. Does Army of Renown need to follow the usual Detachment rules? Like, having 3x obligatory Troop choices (Warriors) for Battalion Detachment? Or is Army of Renown a special type of Detachment, with the "more Monsters than non-monster units", "no Swarm" and "2+ wound models only" limitations? Stupid question from a simple life form - I know. Praise the Hive! Yes, you must still muster your army according to the type (Matched,Narrative,Open), they just modify what units are allowed and grant extra bonuses. (Ie 5++non monster/5++ -1d monsters) |
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Post by xtztxtxz on Dec 16, 2021 0:34:01 GMT
This looks fun for ~175pts?
Trygon Prime
Biomorphic Carapace (Relic)
Murderous Size (AP)
Rampaging Beast (WLT)
Edit: For 1CP you could also give it Gestalt Commander WLT for access to other hive fleet traits, particularly Endless Regeneration.
3+, 5++, -1 damage, -1 to wound rolls
8-10 ScyTal attacks, WS3+, reroll 1's
Pop Thunderous Charge to hit on 2+ & add +1 to wound rolls
Optionally use Aggressive Surge for another D3 attacks.
Strength 8, AP-4, 3-8 damage per attack.
It could also let itself fall back & charge to keep triggering the new strats.
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Post by purestrain on Dec 16, 2021 0:44:11 GMT
This looks fun for ~175pts? Trygon Prime
Biomorphic Carapace (Relic)
Murderous Size (AP)
Rampaging Beast (WLT)3+, 5++, -1 damage, -1 to wound rolls 8-10 ScyTal attacks, WS3+, reroll 1's Pop Thunderous Charge to hit on 2+ & add +1 to wound rolls Strength 8, AP-4, 3-8 damage per attack. It could also let itself fall back & charge to keep triggering the new strats. Wow that gross. I like it. Its also 190 points (+15 from link) |
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 16, 2021 5:28:07 GMT
purestrain apparently Carnifexen take up more space than I thought - you can do a majority of that in 1 Spearhead, but we don't have the points for it. Assuming 2x Carnifex + 2 Harpies as a core, that's more than 1.1k points sunk in. Get a Flyrant and SL, there's only enough space for 1 more monster, min warriors, and minimal scoring. I guess only 3 Carnifexen is feasible?
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Post by hivefleetkaiju on Dec 16, 2021 10:21:50 GMT
purestrain apparently Carnifexen take up more space than I thought - you can do a majority of that in 1 Spearhead, but we don't have the points for it. Assuming 2x Carnifex + 2 Harpies as a core, that's more than 1.1k points sunk in. Get a Flyrant and SL, there's only enough space for 1 more monster, min warriors, and minimal scoring. I guess only 3 Carnifexen is feasible? Carnifex is too expensive point wise at this moment for spamming |
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