Army of Renown: Crusher Stampede in next WD

[No One]

kubimaniac said:

Could the limitation of the 1 to 1 ratio of Monster - Non-Monster push cheap carnifexes since 3 can be one unit? Or will FW models dominate the scene?

It's not 1:1, it's non-monster units<=monster units. Which is a fairly whatever restriction when monsters are your pay off for running this thing (though warrior spam could've been interesting), and fexes...could help with if really needed I guess since they're cheap but not for the reasons stated, and I doubt you'd need to. So yes, FW. Or our good Codex MCs (flyrant, Swarmy, exo), our maybe almost decent ones (trygon, tox, t-fex), and the ones that this makes interesting (harpy, mawloc, maybe t-cyte).

[kazetanade]

Trygon TFex actually don't get much from this either I think, other than really good durability on the TFex. Breaking through is just alright on them and tagging obsec on them is part for other MCs.

Toxicrene gets a fair bit of the goodies, but doesn't benefit as well as a Haruspex.

I only just realised +1H/W/D is for MC/Vehicles only - so its great for a dedicated Talos/Dreadnought/Killrig hunter, not so great vs Characters. We still need an elite infantry killer that can work its way through, or not bounce off of, invuls.

Just like leviathan, this supplement helps to supercharge 1 thing to really great places per turn. With a combination of the d3A spell, Break Through, +1/1/1, and fight on death, it makes a melee monster a serious veritable threat. But the rest of the army only has the passives to go by, considering many of our major buffs are infantry ones.

So with 1-3 stars of the show, the rest of the MC should be somewhat self-reliant, which feels like it sort of limits our choices.

Mawloc is one of the curious ones. With auto 3MW, coming up on an obj seems pretty good. The trick Q is how do we steal obj from obsec since that's a command phase thing. Only answer I'm getting is burn an adaptation for it.

Assuming we can get access to Leviathan strats with this AoR, it's probably still HG + rerolls going in. Otherwise I'm actually thinking of running mix batt...

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Mawloc is one of the curious ones. With auto 3MW, coming up on an obj seems pretty good. The trick Q is how do we steal obj from obsec since that's a command phase thing. Only answer I'm getting is burn an adaptation for it.

Run a harpy: like legit, 30" 12 model obsec for 1 CP, 6 MW for 1 CP, even gets a bit of shooting tacked on and a fight last. Painful to hide, but hey 5++/-1 D and it's not super squishy for the pts anymore. Seems solid.

Assuming we can get access to Leviathan strats with this AoR, it's probably still HG + rerolls going in. Otherwise I'm actually thinking of running mix batt...

You're still Levi, so you still get Levi stuff. And it's solo hive fleet, no mixed (and we can't even mixed bat anyway, Tyranid is locked in the same way as Imp/Chaos).

[zimko]

Dec 15, 2021 3:47:44 GMT kazetanade said:

Mawloc is one of the curious ones. With auto 3MW, coming up on an obj seems pretty good. The trick Q is how do we steal obj from obsec since that's a command phase thing. Only answer I'm getting is burn an adaptation for it.

What do you mean by burning an adaptation? What adaptation helps with stealing objectives from obsec with a mawloc?

[kazetanade]

zimko there's an adaptation to give a creature synapse. You can't stop them scoring it, but you can score it in your own turn.

Frankly liking the Harpy idea more. Its got guns and does MW too, and can steal for their turn. If you can somehow set up a charge, it can assist as well. Way more efficient gunbase than Fexes too. Really meshes with my "chew the edges" gameplay. Bring 2 along.

..... so both the Haruspex and the Harpy might be viable now. This is beyond crazy.

Dunno how to feel about the Harridan. Off the cuff, I feel like 'dules and 'Dan and 'phan don't benefit as much because they really want Dermic still for count as x2.

[Bohxim]

Would still be nice to have a -1 dmg constantly on it and chance to roll 35 dice to fish for 6 mortals a turn with the harridan imo. Esp since it generally wouldn't have the hive fleet adaptations in the first place

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Dunno how to feel about the Harridan. Off the cuff, I feel like 'dules and 'Dan and 'phan don't benefit as much because they really want Dermic still for count as x2.

Maybe for the 'phant, 'cause it actually helps with objectives. Harridan can't score and so relies on the rest of the list for that. While there's some cool scoring options here, it feels more like tools you can take to mitigate the issue of the AoR, rather than something that makes it better at scoring than normal lists. Essentially just making the harridan skew more skew, and so while it maybe helps into some matchups where they could otherwise just dumpster the harridan with D2 or something, it opens you up to just still being outscored when you'd be outscored before, or things that could kill the harridan...potentially still just doing that (though unlikely usually I feel: but if they could kill harridan previously, killing the other parts of the army might still be an option, and then again your scoring falls apart). Both feel like they could still be very good where they're good though.

[kazetanade]

Scoring is going to be the hardest part of this army honestly - Leviathan scoring shenanigans only mitigate the weakness, as you said. We're still reliant on Warriors to score, much like the Ork AoR is reliant on these supercharged bikes.

Luckily the main secondary scoring options don't feel touched - Lictors and now Fliers can help with EoAF, Lictors, Ravs, and Warriors do ROD just fine. For now. It's back to the 3rd obj which is giving problems yet again.

For Primary, other than our shenanigans, it's up to Warriors to score, or MC literally clearing out the obj.

But yessssss, let's hope the changes continue to be thematic and not disappointing.

[Shadowwolf]

With the next edition probably dropping somewhere in the forseable future, do you think this is a test of a possible new scoring mechanics? I can see why GW would have issues with 5 guardsmen holding an objective over 4 spess mehreens, but if wounds were counted instead of models in general, they'd change the game of scoring a lot.

Shadowwolf

[No One]

kazetanade said:

It's back to the 3rd obj which is giving problems yet again.

I think grind will often be good, so there's that, and if not there's hopefully often a kill secondary that works.

But yessssss, let's hope the changes continue to be thematic and not disappointing.

Yeah, however this turns out on relative competitiveness, GW have definitely revitalised the MC archetype, at least for a bit.

Edit:

Shadowwolf said:

With the next edition probably dropping somewhere in the forseable future, do you think this is a test of a possible new scoring mechanics? I can see why GW would have issues with 5 guardsmen holding an objective over 4 spess mehreens, but if wounds were counted instead of models in general, they'd change the game of scoring a lot.

Eh, knights just got straight 'count as more models', I'm not sure I'd read much into this.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Dec 15, 2021 8:33:43 GMT kazetanade said:

Luckily the main secondary scoring options don't feel touched - Lictors and now Fliers can help with EoAF,

How will lichtors be able to help with the new engage on all fronts? I thought it required 3 models or a monster/vehicle.

[No One]

Current engage, not new engage. Note the "For now".

[xtztxtxz]

Dec 15, 2021 9:12:25 GMT No One said:

Shadowwolf said:

With the next edition probably dropping somewhere in the forseable future, do you think this is a test of a possible new scoring mechanics? I can see why GW would have issues with 5 guardsmen holding an objective over 4 spess mehreens, but if wounds were counted instead of models in general, they'd change the game of scoring a lot.

Eh, knights just got straight 'count as more models', I'm not sure I'd read much into this.

It's pretty amusing that Titanic Knights only count as 10 models, while Trygons or Tfexes count as more. Powercreep moves so quickly these days.

Dec 15, 2021 8:33:43 GMT kazetanade said:

Scoring is going to be the hardest part of this army honestly - Leviathan scoring shenanigans only mitigate the weakness, as you said. We're still reliant on Warriors to score, much like the Ork AoR is reliant on these supercharged bikes.

Luckily the main secondary scoring options don't feel touched - Lictors and now Fliers can help with EoAF, Lictors, Ravs, and Warriors do ROD just fine. For now. It's back to the 3rd obj which is giving problems yet again.

For Primary, other than our shenanigans, it's up to Warriors to score, or MC literally clearing out the obj.

But yessssss, let's hope the changes continue to be thematic and not disappointing.

With the upcoming ROD changes I wonder how effective a small unit of Venomthropes will now be for objectives & actions in the backfield, now they have access to an invuln. Stacking -1 to hit, -1D, and 5++ together on nearby monsters adds up.

[kazetanade]

I'm still bringing a malanthrope for that. Venomthropes are bad maths - it always works out better to shoot what they're protecting, so they're a trap choice to shoot, but shooting them is relatively easy to remove so you lose very little efficiency for it, and for the Venomthropes to gain back their points in saves, you'd need to lose something like 900 points, which is nearly the game right there. The main reason malanthrope is not is because:

1. Its synapse when you play aggressive synapse creatures who don't hold backline

2. Its a character means it can never be shot unless sniper, and it's not sniper squishy

3. Its a character that can hold our key relic and our key buff WLTs right now.

If you don't fulfill 2 out of 3 of above, don't even bother.

Venomthrope + Maleceptor has better use case - you don't stack redundant buffs, and the main out of LOS shooting are affected by Maleceptor buff into Venomthropes. Plus, target priority on the Maleceptor since he creates more problems in general.

Considering how cp starved we are right now, maleceptors are off my list, and so are venomthropes by extension. If you were using both though, I think venomthropes are fine for Banners actions. RND is gonna be so harsh for us, since we basically have to use gaunts now.

[Kitane]

So what will need an FAQ?

Spawning Termagants and Spore mines is one thing - I am already seeing people arguing that this isn't possible in this Army of Renown.
Thunderous Impact +1 to the damage roll - whether this is really intended for random damage attacks only, or just an oversight.