Competitive Leviathan GT prep thread

[brianb9999]

I'm registered for a GT at the beginning of January, first GT in 2 years due to COVID/just busy with other stuff. I had been practicing with my Blood Angels quite a bit recently until the supplement and the balance data slate dropped, so I feel this is the perfect time to give nids a spin while we are in this little honeymoon window.

I've been able to get weekly games in against a local competitive GK player, which is good because I predict GK to be a major player in the GT with their current state. My list was as follows:

Flyrant (2x talons, AG, Biomorphic carapace, Catalyst, Psychic scream)
Swarmlord (Onslaught, Parox)
Prime (Warlord, 2x ST, adaptive neural lobe, Unchecked ferocity,alpha leader beast: Strategic adaptation, Swarm leader)

16 Genestealers
30 Hormagaunts
28 Devilgaunts
5 Warriors (2x ST, AG, Bioweapon Bond)
3 Rippers
3 Rippers

6 Hive Guard
Lictor
Lictor
Maleceptor (Psychic scream, Focal essence)

Exocrine

He's running an anti-meta GK List with Draigo, Crowe, 1 GMDK, 3x10 Interceptors, 3 or 4x10 Strikes, and 3x4 Servitors for actions. He was 11-0 with this list at this point, taking down my Blood Angels and a previous Tyranid list along the way. We were playing Battle Lines and I chose Stranglehold, Vital Ground, and No Prisoners as my Secondaries. I went first, picking up 2 Interceptor squads (save for 1 model) and establishing board control. I was able to pull out a win after a dreadful turn 3 on his part, but even with a few things going his way, he was probably tabled.

I definitely learned that the Exocrine is not effective enough in Leviathan so I'm going to swap it, a unit of rippers, and AG on the warriors for 16 gene stealers. We are going to test the same mission in a week or 2 with this change and maybe him going first to see if I can weather his firepower, but I like this list for now and will keep practicing/tweaking. Any comments/criticism welcome.

[kazetanade]

If you can spring for Kronos, do it- you want consistent 2D on a monster so you can stretch for 3D flat when you need it. Ramshackle is a (please do not swear) so I have ditched the exo because of that, but he's otherwise very good and giving him 3+ rr1s exploding hits is good esp if you have HG in Leviathan and its shtick. You'll see a fair number of armies struggle with the Exocrenes output while still having to deal with genestealers. For my own list I use a Barbed Heirodule in Leviathan and HG in Kronos, respectively, so that I can explode both HG and Devilgants in a turn I need to without losing much of anything.

Ditch the Flyrant. Competitive Nid lists will pivot around doing alphastrike damage hard and precisely - the Flyrant does so little damage it can be ignored by most meta lists. Stuff to block/score/ROD would be more helpful for your overall gameolan.

[brianb9999]

So my thought with the exocrine was to see if it would still be worth it in leviathan. It could still work in Kronos, but then I'm shelling out another 95 pts and 2 CP for the Neurothrope. I'm not sure if that's worth it given how poorly it performs versus -1 damage and T8. Pathogenic slime is a thing, but it's another 2 CP in an army that is even more CP strapped than before. I reasoned that I could explode 6's with the strat, but it has never come up that I'd rather use it on the exo over hive guard or the devilgaunts.

The Flyrant, on the other hand, has been an all-star. It seems that every game, I find a new use for it. With the -1 to wound relic, it's arguably tougher than Swarmlord even with his 3++ in combat. It's an incredibly fast problem solver that can help score engage or linebreaker. I've jumped from one combat to another by turning him Kraken for a turn, and it can steal objectives against non-obsec units when you pop Hive Mind Imperaticve. Lastly, it helps open up at least a decent To the Last with this list, being one of the TTL units with Swarmlord and hive guard, so if my secondary options aren't great, I can choose to play it more reactively and counter-punch. The only thing I don't like about it is not having Murderous Size. I feel like I have to put Enhanced Resistance on the hive guard since I'm only bringing one unit, but I may switch that if it doesn't seem like ap 1/2 outside LOS is going to be much of a thing.

If I were to replace it, what would you suggest? I don't have forgeworld, and my troops are maxed out. I do have 30 gargoyles and 3 raveners that could help screen additionally and grab objectives...or I could always try to squeeze in a second unit of hive guard. Just don't know if I want to go the 2x hive guard route, and I don't particularly want to run too many more models.

[No One]

brianb9999 said:

I reasoned that I could explode 6's with the strat, but it has never come up that I'd rather use it on the exo over hive guard or the devilgaunts.

I'm currently not sure if it's worth 1 CP a lot of the time (outside of tesla of course): don't get me wrong, it's a solid strat for just explodes. But with how fast we burn CP, opportunity cost seems like it'll often be more than 'solid'.

but I may switch that if it doesn't seem like ap 1/2 outside LOS is going to be much of a thing.

Mirror.

and my troops are maxed out

*looks at rippers* Uhh...that's an easily fixed problem

[brianb9999]

Honestly I have thought about how Hive Guard can be one of the biggest threats to my own Hive Guard...the possibility of a mirror match looks better as more Tyranid players come out of the woodwork. Redeploy is another possibility too I guess.

[bigpig]

Why AG on the Warriors? 2x scytal warriors are (please do not swear) in combat against anything mid board that matters. It feels like they are just there for a plug of 15 obsec wounds and bioweapon bond. Would the extra devilgaunt be better? or maybe fewer warriors if you don't find them in midfield? Just thoughts.. your meta will be the decider

[brianb9999]

Nov 25, 2021 9:16:16 GMT bigpig said:

Why AG on the Warriors? 2x scytal warriors are (please do not swear) in combat against anything mid board that matters. It feels like they are just there for a plug of 15 obsec wounds and bioweapon bond. Would the extra devilgaunt be better? or maybe fewer warriors if you don't find them in midfield? Just thoughts.. your meta will be the decider

I believe I had exactly 5 points left in this iteration so it was just kind of a throw-in. But dropping the AG, the exo, and a unit of rippers gives me another 16 genestealers. So this list ends up as this:

Swarmlord (onslaught, Parox)
Flyrant (2x talons, AG, carapace, catalyst, scream)
Prime (warlord, 2x ST, swarm leader, strategic adaptation, ANL, unchecked ferocity)

16 genestealers
16 genestealers
28 hormagaunts
30 devilgaunts
5 warriors 2x ST, bio weapon bond
3 rippers

Maleceptor (scream, focal essence)
6 hive guard
Lictor
Lictor

The list feels pretty solid at this point, but I am going to try some iterations without the flyrant, either to squeeze in more hive guard or screening units.

[bigpig]

^fair enough

[kazetanade]

At this point I'd say drop the Maleceptor while you're at it. I really didn't like him while testing, and he can't Ritual - with TS and GK coming out competitively, and BT/Sisters likely making a resurgence with their anti-psyker shenanigans, I'm extremely turned off psychic as a core part of the list - Maleceptor and Zoeys do nothing else, and hence no longer make the cut imo.

There is almost no matchups now that need or can leverage his T1 defense, with Orks taking a severe beating on the worst offenders and your list having a lack of T8 models.

[brianb9999]

So we can rethink the list from the ground up with the goal of maximizing shooting/combat damage and cutting back on psychic output. Based on what I've seen here and heard from other sources (and limited by what I own) I'd probably want a core of 2 units of hive guard, 2 units of genestealers, and a unit of 30 devilgaunts. So here's the core:

Swarmlord (necessary for the gene stealers in Levi, and well, he's Swarmlord)
30 Devilgaunts
2x6 Hive guard (probably 1 with enhanced resistance)
2x16 Genestealers

I like this setup because it gives a pretty decent To the Last (Swarmy and both hive guard units). To max the output of these units most efficiently plus fill other basic objective needs, I'll also be adding:

Tyranid prime (for 6's autowound, good WL and relic caddy)
2x3 warriors with bioweapon bond
2 Lictors (all I have)

So this already puts us at 1702 points. The list mostly seems to be missing screening units, for which I have used hormagaunts and gargoyles in the past. I had liked the idea of hormagaunts because while not as killy as genestealers, they could benefit from the combat buffs. However, I've never gotten into a situation where I've used them for that. I do have 30 gargoyles that could be split into 2 units, as well as 3 raveners for early objective grabbing/actions or deep striking. This gets me close to 2000, with some room to perhaps bulk up the warrior units. I'm open for other takes/suggestions.

[kazetanade]

Personal opinion: but I feel the most ideal list setup is:

-SL
-Prime
-2x ?? Devilgants
-1x6 HG (Kronos)
-2x 16 GS
- 1x MC for consistent 3D when required (Heirodule, Exocrene, Flyrants)

With some fast moving chaff to grab objectives as and when required, contest objectives with obsec.

Going hard into HG only gimps us vs the -1d armies, and is a win more condition vs ideal matchups. With a unit of devilgants on the ground, it can bust up most non 2+sv targets, so you really only need some answer for 2+ stormshields.

Hormagants I've found to be great at dual role - killing light stuff in the midfield where you don't want to commit Genestealers previously. Recently though with the rr everything we can pop on GS, the differences are small and not super noticeable - a small equal point unit of GS can punch much harder than the equal point of Horms, without strategem support (while the horms have rr and strategem support). There's still a psychological aspect to it though, so I would personally say that hormagants are still good since they let you keep your "big hitters" safe and continue to play havoc on your opponents mind and planning.

But if you're pushing for list efficiency and efficacy, drop the horms and push for skyslashers (or 2x10 Gargs), get the 2nd devilgant unit in.

Edit: really quickly into battlescribe, can't do 2x devilgants due to buff and space allocation. So just keep it to 1...

[brianb9999]

I've only got the 30 dev gaunts (could probably run flesh borers and not everyone would know, but eh) so that's all I planned on using anyway. If I keep the original idea of 2x hive guard in mono Levi, I could do this:

Swarmlord (catalyst, onslaught)
Prime (2x ST, WL, unchecked ferocity, strategic adaptation, swarm leader, ANL)

16 GS
16 GS
26 hormagaunts
30 dev gaunts
3 Warriors (2x ST, bioweapon bond)
3 Warriors (2x ST, bioweapon bond)

6 HG (enhanced resistance)
6 HG
Lictor
Lictor

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

1998 points
10 CP

It gives up max no prisoners, but I also have TTL and 36 no prisoner wounds are tied up in the hive guard. 26 hormagaunts is not insignificant, and can act as the midfield skirmishing unit/second screen while gargoyles push forward and genestealers get into position.

As far as the -1 dmg, I feel that it really hurts the exocrine, but the ap3 is nice, and it can have some very good targets. So taking your suggestions and splitting out a Kronos detachment, I could fairly easily swap the 2nd unit of hive guard for a neuro and exo, and move one of the warrior units over to complete the patrol. I could symbiostorm whichever shooting platform makes more sense, and pop pathogenic if needed, except it's SO pricey. This list would start with only 7 CP but have potential to farm. I just have to keep in mind that the Kronos stuff will pretty much sit where it's deployed and cannot take advantage of redeploy:

Leviathan Battalion

Swarmlord (catalyst, onslaught)
Prime (2x ST, WL, unchecked ferocity, strategic adaptation, swarm leader, ANL)

16 GS
16 GS
27 hormagaunts
30 dev gaunts
3 Warriors (2x ST, bioweapon bond)

Lictor
Lictor

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Kronos Patrol

Neuro (symbiostorm, resonance barb)

3 Warriors (2x ST, bioweapon bond)

6 HG (enhanced resistance)

Exo

1999 points
7 CP

This list unfortunately can't take advantage of TTL as well, since it's now SL, hive guard, dev gaunts. So that would be a major consideration since we don't have a faction secondary to fall back on, and it still gives max no prisoners. Might give both lists a few tries and see what I like.

[brianb9999]

So scrap everything, we're going all-out with Leviathan and the Crusher Stampede while everything is fresh and not nerfed. List submission deadline is Jan 1, so have a few days to iron things out. I've done some play testing and theorycrafting, and this is where I'm at (note, I don't own Forgeworld, so only codex options available):

Leviathan Battalion, Crusher Stampede

Flyrant: Warlord (Rampaging Beast), Wings, Adrenal glands, Monstrous Boneswords, Monstrous Rending Claws, Synaptic Barrier, Aggressive Surge, Alpha-leader Beast (swapped WLT for Murderous Size), Relic: Synaptic Hive Blades
Flyrant: Wings, Adrenal glands, 2x2 Devourers, Catalyst, Psychic Scream, Relic: Biomorphic Carapace
Swarmlord: Onslaught, Catalyst

3 Warriors: 2x2 Scything Talons, Bioweapon Bond
3 Warriors: 2x2 Scything Talons, Bioweapon Bond
3 Warriors: 2x2 Scything Talons, Bioweapon Bond

Haruspex: Murderous Size (maw)
6 Hive Guard: Impaler Cannons

Tyrannofex: Acid Spray
Tyrannofex: Acid Spray

Harpy: 2x Heavy Venom Cannon
Harpy: 2x Heavy Venom Cannon

1998 points
9 CP

Overall, the list is fast, tough, and fun. Harpies have gone from meme units to incredibly useful, a fully-buffed Harupsex just doesn't die (and can actually kill things), and the flyrants are just annoying to deal with. Beta mission packet was just released, so I know we're playing Vital Intelligence, Priority Target, Sweep and Clear, and the 2 previewed 2022 missions. For secondaries, I'm probably taking TTL in most cases (Swarmlord, Dakka flyrant, Hive Guard), either Engage/Strangle or Ritual/Interrogate, and the mission secondary for all the 2021 missions. Still not 100% on the Flyrant load outs, but the Hive Blades are probably a safer bet than MST against the field (Dreadknights, anything else with invuln). Since the devourers jack up the price of the Dakka Flyrant, I figured it would make sense to go all-in on survivability with that one, but could swap to neural lobe or Void Crown if it's overkill. Otherwise, I like how everything fits in the list, and excited about only needing to move/transport 23 models.

[N.I.B.]

Hive Guard aren't as good in Crusher lists. They wont have screens and are left behind early, plus you need all the CP for your monsters with impotent data sheets and Hive Guard churns through CP.
If you want to get in before nerfs, my guess is the Hierodules are most likely to get the hammer. Those Barbed look tasty.

[purestrain]

Are Dakkafex with acid maws good now? +1 hit from warriors make them useable in both melee and shooting and if you're fighting a tank you can get the +1wound/damage roll on the ap-5 d3 attacks