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Post by connzee on Oct 27, 2021 15:29:58 GMT
Hi Tom, it’s Connor the guy you played game 3!
It was a pleasure and your army looked great.
You convinced me to take my nids to some tournaments so I am now frantically writing lists with 12 hive guard lol 🤣
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Post by tomb on Oct 27, 2021 17:02:32 GMT
My list for the Vanguard Tactics event this weekend.
Its been submitted so Ed so I can't change it but advise is always appreciated.
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [112 PL, 2,000pts, 10CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts, -1CP]: Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Relic: Adaptive Neural Lobe, Stratagem: Alpha Leader-Beast, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Strategic Adaptation, Warlord Trait: Swarm Leader
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 208pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 16x Scything Talons
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 208pts]: 4x Acid Maw, 16x Scything Talons
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Termagants [9 PL, 147pts]
. 21x Termagant (Devourer): 21x Devourer
Termagants [6 PL, 140pts]
. 20x Termagant (Devourer): 20x Devourer
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 87pts]: Synaptic Link: Bioweapon Bond
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Lash Whip and Bonesword
Tyranid Warriors [13 PL, 261pts]: Adrenal Glands, Synaptic Link: Bioweapon Bond
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Lash Whip and Bonesword
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
++ Total: [112 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++
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Post by tomb on Oct 27, 2021 17:08:21 GMT
Hi Tom, it’s Connor the guy you played game 3! It was a pleasure and your army looked great. You convinced me to take my nids to some tournaments so I am now frantically writing lists with 12 hive guard lol 🤣 Hey Connzee welcome to the hive and thanks for a great game. I'm glad I've opened the door for the hive mind to guide you further! I'm trying 12 hive guard this weekend my list is above. I will miss my Dimas and Barbie though. |
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Post by tomb on Oct 27, 2021 17:25:40 GMT
Good effort. Now it's time to completely change it up and play with new rules, lol. What do you think you'll use now? Thanks Zimko. I've picked what I think will be a pretty 'middle of the road list' using Leviathan warlord traits and Bio weapon bonds. I've already weakened into the warrior build that I was worrying would become the norm. Part of me wants the new buffed warriors to be great I'll be interested to see how both the small buff unit and the big all-in unit performs. The small unit of warriors is just to buff HG (the Nuro will buff the other HG) unit. The larger unit will try to gain some board space and stay alive until my out flanking Dev gaunts and unit of Stealers arrive. Then hope fully they can pass some buff off to either the gaunts or Stealers. Im planning on dropping the Stealers into the opponents DZ turn 2 with the strat so I'm planning on double moving the big warrior unit up a flank turn 1. Hopefully screened by a unit of Stealers launched by Swarmlord. I may keep a unit of Dev gaunts on the table to screen hive guard I may out flank both plus a Stealer unit. I may even try the warriors up the middle if central objectives look to be remotely available. Obs I don't want to try warriors into terminators, witches or the like. I don't even think a big unit if warriors can take on the usual midfield campers that Sisters use? |
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Post by zimko on Oct 27, 2021 17:42:54 GMT
No they can't. But they can trade with some of those units with lash whips. Especially wyches and sisters. I don't like equipping them with ranged weapons. 6 points for a death spitter is just way too much. You have 72 points in just ranged weapons on those warriors that can barely kill a couple marines within 18". For that price you could take another unit of 3 warriors with the synaptic link buff. Which in your case may be a decent play since you only have 2 synaptic links.
However, since you're already at 6 troops, perhaps a unit of gargoyles would be good.
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 27, 2021 20:45:18 GMT
Ranged gun and no Prime? Tsk tsk.
Big blobs of warriors won't be able to wrestle out other midfield obj holders- but they should be able to outlast most, and out-obsec the grabbers. Give them the Enhanved Resistance ADPT and they'll hold on for a fair number of turns, and with LWBS will at least not be given away for free by charging melee armies.
List is set so basically all you can use are play advise right? I think the best advise is to learn what hard lessons were in the goonhammer event and apply here. Most of it works exactly the same and the same problems persist - 3rd secondaries, devgants into cover/dense, letting them alphastrike you too hard.
Make sure you plan for Retrieve Octarous Data properly- and since you have Genestealers,how to do Stranglehold more often than Engage. I *never* take a kill secondary because I do not want to be forced to interact with them where I do not need to - with double HG, Till The Last becomes a viable 3rd, since you need both units to stay alive anyway.
New explodey + GS with reroll + some of the other buffs you keep for HG will not do you wrong. It's worth the 5cp expenditure if you take out core units to their strategy, or remove their ability to contest your scoring.
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Post by beetlejuice on Oct 28, 2021 4:06:50 GMT
Not sold on outflanking stealers. That failed charge will be awkward. With 2x stealers and big warrior blob and no zoans I wouldve swapped neuro for linked prime.
I might even hide 1 stealer unit, launch it and then deploy the 2nd from nodes turn 2 to be launched turn 3. Depending on terrain ofc, this is if you can’t hide everything and hive guard takes priority cause they’re the game winners.
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Post by tomb on Oct 28, 2021 7:43:13 GMT
No they can't. But they can trade with some of those units with lash whips. Especially wyches and sisters. I don't like equipping them with ranged weapons. 6 points for a death spitter is just way too much. You have 72 points in just ranged weapons on those warriors that can barely kill a couple marines within 18". For that price you could take another unit of 3 warriors with the synaptic link buff. Which in your case may be a decent play since you only have 2 synaptic links. However, since you're already at 6 troops, perhaps a unit of gargoyles would be good. Great advice, thank you this will be my first change. Especially as I'm only realy wanting the unit to double move and camp until it can buff turn two. Sadly the list is submitted to BCP so these will be changes I'll make after the event☹️ Oh thise 72 odd points saved on weapons could almost by me a prime... nice |
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Post by tomb on Oct 28, 2021 7:55:01 GMT
Ranged gun and no Prime? Tsk tsk. Big blobs of warriors won't be able to wrestle out other midfield obj holders- but they should be able to outlast most, and out-obsec the grabbers. Give them the Enhanved Resistance ADPT and they'll hold on for a fair number of turns, and with LWBS will at least not be given away for free by charging melee armies. List is set so basically all you can use are play advise right? I think the best advise is to learn what hard lessons were in the goonhammer event and apply here. Most of it works exactly the same and the same problems persist - 3rd secondaries, devgants into cover/dense, letting them alphastrike you too hard. Make sure you plan for Retrieve Octarous Data properly- and since you have Genestealers,how to do Stranglehold more often than Engage. I *never* take a kill secondary because I do not want to be forced to interact with them where I do not need to - with double HG, Till The Last becomes a viable 3rd, since you need both units to stay alive anyway. New explodey + GS with reroll + some of the other buffs you keep for HG will not do you wrong. It's worth the 5cp expenditure if you take out core units to their strategy, or remove their ability to contest your scoring. Thanks, yes I do need to look at stranglehold, engage is such an easy default take but doesn't always score high enough. My rod plan is, turn 1 small warriors unit, turn two lictor, turn three lictor, turn four hive guard with strat. To the last is an interesting take. The hive guard and the big warrior unit could last the game. I may consider reserving the big warrior unit if so then deploying them with a gaunt screen, I'd miss thier buff but keep the synapse and reduce thier time on the board to allow them to last...? I realy hope to get to use the exploding Gbomb each game! |
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Post by tomb on Oct 28, 2021 8:00:33 GMT
Not sold on outflanking stealers. That failed charge will be awkward. With 2x stealers and big warrior blob and no zoans I wouldve swapped neuro for linked prime. I might even hide 1 stealer unit, launch it and then deploy the 2nd from nodes turn 2 to be launched turn 3. Depending on terrain ofc, this is if you can’t hide everything and hive guard takes priority cause they’re the game winners. Cheers, I agree about the risky Stealer charge from reserve. I think you and others are right about the prime he's just been pushed out of so many lists I've looked over him, yes he could be a good change for the next list. I like the node idea a lot. It's risky as the nodes can get shut down but does it allow free reserves for Stealers? Do planes switch nodes off? I need to look into this! Thanks. |
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 30, 2021 4:59:39 GMT
Planes do turn nodes off - I would advise not to take the risk with them.
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Post by tomb on Oct 30, 2021 21:38:01 GMT
So I'm currently 1-2.
Big loss into Liam Dembski the you tubers Harlequins games one, couldn't cap as many objectives or out fight five plus fusion boats and fang master etc. But I did make some glaring mistakes getting used to the new book including missing out on regaining cp which would have changed things slightly had I got it. Hive guard without the Maleceptor bounced off the boats and bikes. Loss 55-70 ish.
Top bloke though.
Big win game two into a Vanguard Tactics coach playing Nightlords for a change. All the new parts of the Leviathan codex worked. The big unit of warriors conga'd a flank and shot to allow a Stealer unit to use Hunters Drive. Stealers exploded hits clearing marines and terminators with ease. Everything came together to show just how good Leviathan can be. Win 80 ish - 50 ish.
Great bloke though who would have destroyed me with his usual Deathwatch list.
Alomost won game three, 75-76 into death guard. I couldn't risk exposing any units due to the volkites. Leviathan stuff worked realy well. Cp regen seems steady. Redeploy is great. +1 and or chaptermaster rerolls are amazing on hive guard and Stealers. Big unit of warriors works well for passing synaptic links and scored to the last.
Take aways so far, the new book is incredible. I'm not sold on two units of hive guard wihought the maleceptor but I wouldn't drop Stealers to pick up a Mal. Warrior buffs are necessary, it pains me to say it but big squads of warriors could work ok just to keep the units we need in synapse and buffed.
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Post by tomb on Oct 30, 2021 21:41:37 GMT
So on day two sadly things went south fast.
A TSons list with a Storm Eagle of all things got first turn. I'd basically gambled for the roll off and not reserved my HG. I'd screened the whole deployment zone, (something I've never done before) to limit his flyers movement.
He got first, the storm eagle was able to delete a whole HG squad and put hurt on the warrior squad. His terminators deleted a Stealer squad and his marines just about deleted a gaunt squad and half the other squad. Wow.
I took off the storm eagle in my turn and a ruberic squad to limit his scoring. He deleted every thing he could see.
I carefully played out the rest of the game with the Nuro, three warriors, 6 hive guard, 16 Stealers and Swarmlord.
Only scoring 55-80 ish.
Lessons learnt -redeploy hive guard. New TSons can murderlate large squads with auto cannons. Flyers are tricky.
Side note- with the rise again n flyer spam I can see a nerf coming to flyers or aircraft (how ever they deal with it) next year, bizzarly I hope that our flying monsters remain not as flyers so that they don't cop a nerf before they gain what could have been benefits!
Last game was into a chap who'd been drafted for n to help with the venue had had a rough tournament and had bought me lunch. I was happy for him to squeeze a win against me in his last turn. 80 - 85 He was stoked.
Some times even with new toys a middle of the road list and not enough knowledge of what the new stuff can do can make the games tougher. I realy missed my Dimacharons and Kraken!
Final thoughts:
I'd spent a bit of time chatting with Nids legend and personal hero of mine AceFace about my list, new Nids and his thoughts gong into the SN Legends event.
Im tempted to go to three squads of Stealers and certainly a previous me for the auto wounds. Having seen Stealers with 20-40 extra hits still bounce of dreads and death guard when they couldn't wound them I'm sold that a prime is an auto include for his SL.
Ace and I agree that the buffed Barbed Heirodule is a strong contender, he feels 12 hive guard is the way to go we agree that the maleceptor is needed for HG, when my HG weren't killing DG due to the -1 it was frustrating. I think I'd rather keep the single unit of HG and look into some more agro assault monsters, Dimas, Tprimes, Hspex etc. Or go back to my 9 Or 10 HG.
If t3 continues to drop out of some metas Dev gaunts become less useful. I also missed not having a Smashrant.
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Post by tomb on Nov 2, 2021 6:59:24 GMT
A couple of other thoughts continuing from above. Ace Face also mentioned potentially using a Malanthrope again in the defensive build. He played into the Orc flyer buggy list and feels a both Mals may be useful now. I hope Forgeworld can give the Malanthrope a useful SL and he'd be a handy HG babysitter.
If I was to play double HG again I'd consider; spending a WL trait for enhanced on both squads, both Maleceptor and Malanthrope, Malenthrope with chaptermaster rerolls (can fish for tesla) and a min warrior squad for +1 for the other HG squad. With big cheap gaunt screens.
Plus potentially a second min warrior squad and a Barbed Heirodule!
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Post by tomb on Nov 2, 2021 7:31:02 GMT
I don't have an event until mid November and I don't think I'll be able to get much testing done before but I think I'd run the below if I was to go to an event tomorrow!
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [119 PL, 2,000pts, 11CP] ++
+ Configuration +
[Reference] Extensions of the Hive Mind
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Hive Fleet: Leviathan
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Paroxysm
Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 98pts]: Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons, Synaptic Link: Unchecked Ferocity, Warlord
Chaptermaster re roll trait - BattleScribe was being a douche.
+ Troops +
Genestealers [16 PL, 208pts]: 3x Acid Maw, 16x Scything Talons
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Genestealers [16 PL, 208pts]: 3x Acid Maw, 16x Scything Talons
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 66pts]: Synaptic Link: Bioweapon Bond
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 66pts]: Synaptic Link: Bioweapon Bond
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]
. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis
++ Total: [119 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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