Morvenn Vahl and Celestian Sacresants

[vejby]

I had a run-in with a Sister player who had two units of Sacresants hiding in LoS-blocking terrain within range of Morvenn Vahl and Sister Celestine, respectively, meaning I could not shoot either of them. He also had some model that could revive up to d3 dead models from an infantry unit per turn, meaning they were immensly resistant to shooting as long as they stayed out of LoS.

How would you deal with something like this? Hive guard bumped off the 4++ and none of our monsters really want to go near those two characters. Would biovores be an option or are they still not good enough?

[elkon]

Biovores wouldn't work either. The only way I could think of is either melee (might be a horrible idea) or using something like 2 units of HG to nuke the bodyguard unit.


I just loathe this rule with all my heart.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Tactically, what did his units achieve in this game? Did they slowly creep up the board before crashing your line?

If they are hanging back and not scoring, then maybe ignore them?

I'll think on counter options later.

[vejby]

Oct 1, 2021 13:37:34 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Tactically, what did his units achieve in this game? Did they slowly creep up the board before crashing your line?

If they are hanging back and not scoring, then maybe ignore them?

I'll think on counter options later.

In this game they were holding two objectives in no man's land giving my opponent both a lead on primaries as well as scoring one of his secondaries. It was do or die anyway.

[beetlejuice]

It’s a ridiculous interaction if you can’t punk them reliably in melee. You need two units to flip the objective, one to suicide charge and base the char, the other to put obsec on objective outside of engagement range

[kazetanade]

I would deal with this (please do not swear) by taking their objective in the back and forcing him to split up the nice castle. If he doesn't, you grab all the other objectives and if he does, you pick apart.

Nids bounce off 4++ in general - its our worst nightmare. 4++ 4+++ is basically our DO NOT EVER ENGAGE zone.

Something could possibly work is like. A full unit of Stealers. Possibly. But if I could, I'd duck around behind them and eat the back.

This interaction holds true for all Centre Durable Castle SM lists from end 8th too - don't engage directly, eat around the edges and isolate, and force him to make a decision that split them up, making mistakes in the meanwhile.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I think you're going to have to get close to move around the LoS block. Here's some mathhammer + ideas for killing the bodyguards

1. 9 warriors + a prime with DS/stranglers + BS. Shoot 2x into one squad will just about wipe it (8.9 dead on average). Charge the other (10 dead on average)
2. Hormogaunts at AP-2 (custom fleet + strat). They'll kill one unit in the fight phase
3. About 15 genestealers charging will kill one unit (10 underlined by about 3)
4. 90 devourer gaunts kill about 5.8 models
5. Without buffs, 10 abberants (picks + claws + 2 stop signs) can kill 8.6 models. With a primus and twisted helix, a squad of 5 can kill 6.3. bladed cog strat + primus a squad of 5 can kill 7.28. I think squads of 5 become really dangerous if you add in might from beyond as well.

[tomb]

In this scenario Vahl is a genuine target for smite.

If you have the ability to throw smites at her from max range you can.

6 zoanthropes could be a nice counter. Or a screen for a Flyant or Dima to jump and do work. A Dima shouldn't be able to kill Vahl before dying to her but it's happened for me (good times).

Swarmlord can go toe to toe with Vahl a smash rant could too. Be sure to charge to get the fights first and use the fights again.

Paroxism and catalyst help too.

Once Vahl is down most Sisters players tend to loose their big girl pants and make less confident plays.

Obs sisters have a dumb deny mechanic but when they fail that 4+ it's good times.

[No One]

tomb said:

In this scenario Vahl is a genuine target for smite.

Yes, but 4+++ vs MWs, so...it's an option, but it's not very good. Good against Celestine, unless she's just going to sit there, in which case she just actions to full.

Or a screen for a Flyant or Dima to jump and do work. A Dima shouldn't be able to kill Vahl before dying to her but it's happened for me (good times).

Swarmlord can go toe to toe with Vahl a smash rant could too. Be sure to charge to get the fights first and use the fights again.

Half damage means that you're very unlikely to kill with a tyrant: dima is OK, but easily stopped by MD/strat. Then you'll usually get bracketed on the fight back, and if you don't burn adrenaline to kill her, she just kills you with the double fight.

Even if you do kill her, they probably then kill whatever you sent in pretty easily: potentially worth if that lets you start picking apart units and meaningfully threatening the objective, but considering how unreliable it is...

Once Vahl is down most Sisters players tend to loose their big girl pants and make less confident plays.

They really shouldn't.

Obs sisters have a dumb deny mechanic but when they fail that 4+ it's good times.

They just get to chuck an auto deny on a 6 (5 with rite, which is a legit choice against nids depending on build).

Basically what Kaz said: pressure other objectives, stealers to kill sacs (or Celestine, it's about the same to them. Except for the whole 'come back from the dead' thing...). Otherwise, just focus on holding your objectives, kill other things, chip at them with HG/smites, and chuck some obsec at them if they just want to sit there relying on single model units to score. Also hospitaler regen models is a strat.