Kronos/custom hive fleet 2000 pts

[vejby]

I will be trying this list in a mostly for fun setting, although ultimately, we are testing for the biggest competitive tournament of the year in that group, so it will be serious in about a month or so:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [34 PL, 672pts] ++
Hive Fleet: Kronos
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord

+ Troops +
10x Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
10x Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]

+ Elites +
6x Hive Guard [12 PL, 270pts]
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]

+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis

++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Tyranids) [71 PL, 7CP, 1,328pts] ++
Hive Fleet
. Other: Prey-sight, Synaptic Augmentation

+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 185pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Pathogenesis, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Toxin Sacs
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 240pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught

+ Troops +
10x Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]
10x Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]
3x Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
3x Tyranid Warriors: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons [4 PL, 60pts]
3x Tyranid Warriors: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons [4 PL, 60pts]
3x Tyranid Warriors: Lash Whip and Bonesword, Scything Talons [4 PL, 60pts]

+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]

+ Fast Attack +
Dimachaeron [12 PL, 255pts]

+ Heavy Support +
Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts]

. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis

++ Total: [105 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

I am curious to see the interaction between the hive guard that can hide but be out-distanced and the 'dule that can be 'out-hidden' but only out-distanced with greater difficulty. The walk-rant is a bit of an indulgence to see how the custom traits together with the extra rerolls from the relic behave together for the HVC. Later on, he might as well be replaced by a neurothrope. One thing the list lacks is an anvil unit, so I might exchange the walkrant and the exo for a neurothrope and a big unit of zoanthropes, but that again depends on how the barbed hierodule performs. If I do go that way, i might give all the warrior broods venom cannons as they would also benefit from the reroll trait, adding a bit of extra shooting.

The custom hive fleet is geared towards getting the most out of the monsters in cc by giving them a free reroll or improving their to-hit rolls. The Kronos is pretty standard. The Hierodule is placed in the custom fleet for painting reasons, but I also think there are enough targets for Symbiostorm already and I would like to keep it mobile without considerations of losing the fleet bonus to let him move around for LoS.

Secondaries/actions should be well covered with all the infantry units and lictors and I think I can get by with the thin screening. After all, if the enemy comes to me, I get much easier charges off on them.

Comments would be appreciated if I have overlooked anything obvious.

[No One]

I think there's a lot of anti-synergy in the custom det:
- Tyrant and Swarmlord hit on 2s, so prey sight is basically useless
- Patho with low shot count means you're unlikely to get much benefit from either path, or augmentation
- Dima gets rrs to hit already making and barbed gets rr1s in cc, so has full rrs to hit with prey sight
- Flyrant gets rrs to wound, Swarmlord, barbed and dima can all also get rrs to wound from voracious: combined with above you're very limited in rr potential

Swap WL to the bat for a CP.

Anyway, I think you'll just get more from Kronos for mobility, and res barb on the walkrant for reliable cat/ons.

[vejby]

Sept 13, 2021 11:48:34 GMT No One said:

I think there's a lot of anti-synergy in the custom det:
- Tyrant and Swarmlord hit on 2s, so prey sight is basically useless
- Patho with low shot count means you're unlikely to get much benefit from either path, or augmentation
- Dima gets rrs to hit already making and barbed gets rr1s in cc, so has full rrs to hit with prey sight
- Flyrant gets rrs to wound, Swarmlord, barbed and dima can all also get rrs to wound from voracious: combined with above you're very limited in rr potential

Swap WL to the bat for a CP.

Anyway, I think you'll just get more from Kronos for mobility, and res barb on the walkrant for reliable cat/ons.

Good comments, though I am not entirely sure I agree, at least not until practice has taught me otherwise 

The tyrant chassis does hit on 2's, until they start to degrade. Prey-sight will help both function optimally longer in cc, while synaptic aug. provides both with a free re-roll to hit. With their low number of A, they need all the help they can get. The same goes for the other monsters.

The HVC on the walkrant is an indulgence, but on average it should make 2 shots that can then both be re-rolled to hit. It may have a low number of shots, but the quality makes the single reroll from both synaptic aug and the relic desirable in my opinion. If we had the option to re-roll all ones instead, it might have been better applied to devourers, but we do not. But the walk rant is the piece I have biggest doubts about. It could be a broodlord + whatever instead and then prey sight might also go as the number of monsters dwindles. That would be food for thought after testing.

Neither prey sight nor synaptic aug. allows rerolls on the wound roll, so the potential for rerolls outside of VA or monstrous rending claws was always limited, unless you want to go Gorgon.

Kraken would be better for mobility, yes, I would agree with that. This list sacrifices the extra mobility for a bit of added precision. And of course the WL - I keep forgetting that losing the warlord is by now relatively inconsequential and it will be clear by the opponent's choice if it is not.

Thanks.

[piersonsmuppet]

Pathogenesis a decent choice as a second relic, but it doesn't offer as much benefit with Synaptic Augmentation over a regular HVC. Like No One said, Res Barb would offer more than a roughly .22/.44/.66 (1/2/3 shots with Path) increase in HVC successful wounds.

My only suggestion besides the relic swap on Tyrant is to put a VC on the warrior units. Min Warriors with a free rr on the VC is pretty core to a Synaptic Aug battalion.

[zimko]

Sept 13, 2021 12:21:40 GMT vejby said:

Sept 13, 2021 11:48:34 GMT No One said:

I think there's a lot of anti-synergy in the custom det:
- Tyrant and Swarmlord hit on 2s, so prey sight is basically useless
- Patho with low shot count means you're unlikely to get much benefit from either path, or augmentation
- Dima gets rrs to hit already making and barbed gets rr1s in cc, so has full rrs to hit with prey sight
- Flyrant gets rrs to wound, Swarmlord, barbed and dima can all also get rrs to wound from voracious: combined with above you're very limited in rr potential

Swap WL to the bat for a CP.

Anyway, I think you'll just get more from Kronos for mobility, and res barb on the walkrant for reliable cat/ons.

Good comments, though I am not entirely sure I agree, at least not until practice has taught me otherwise 

The tyrant chassis does hit on 2's, until they start to degrade. Prey-sight will help both function optimally longer in cc, while synaptic aug. provides both with a free re-roll to hit. With their low number of A, they need all the help they can get. The same goes for the other monsters.

The Swarmlord always hits on 2s, even when he degrades.

[vejby]

Sept 14, 2021 14:03:47 GMT zimko said:

Sept 13, 2021 12:21:40 GMT vejby said:

The Swarmlord always hits on 2s, even when he degrades.

Well, I'll be damned. That's what I get for thinking I remember stuff instead of looking it up. Thanks.

[vejby]

Just to wrap this one up a bit, I switched to Kraken before the game, which turned out to be against a novice Chaos player, so not what I had hoped for.

He started and did all of 3 or 4 wounds combined to my warriors. He did not get warp time off, or any other power for that matter, so that was quite lucky. My turn I ate a hellbrute with the dimachaeron, which was conveniently placed next to some cultists, so having charged both units, but only beaten on the hellbrute, his digestion spine easily activated. Chaos turn 2, his big blob of 10 terminators with combi-melta's came down to shoot swarmlord and the dima. After two rounds of shooting from the terminators the dima was down to 10 wounds and swarmy had lost 1. My opponent also proceeded to waste 2 obliterators on warriors, but it did not make much difference at that point. My turn 2 the barbed hierodule deleted all 10 terminators in a show of horribly good rolling on my part and equally horrible save rolling on his part. At the end of my turn 2, he had a few cultists, a venom crawler on 1 wound, 4 possesed, 1 greater possesed, a few normal marines and raptors and a psyker. I had lost 5 warriors and some wounds off the dima and swarm lord. We just called it there.

Aside from skew rolling and him being a novice player, the synergy between the hierodules long range and the hive guards ability to ignore LoS meant that he had no place to hide within range of the hive guard and if he stayed out of range, the hierodule could pick him off, forcing him to hide in a very few places if he did not want to expose at least some units to me. He chose the latter, which also meant the exocrine could stand still and shoot effectively because targets were coming to him instead of the other way around. The walkrant did not do very much, but the relic on the venom cannon was quite useful and against 10 possessed, blast and the rerolls actually made his shooting somewhat reliable. I have no doubt that against a more modern list and a more experienced opponent, it would have been much more challenging, but I came away with the feeling that the list can be honed into someting worthwhile. I never felt a lack of units for actions and I could 100% screen my deployment zone from his deep strike while stille having the lictors in reserve.