The big four, theoretic price adjustment.

[niiai]

I did not know what subject to give it. Some point adjustments are announced in the new bi-anual point adjustment.

Let us assume that acolytes are fairly costed. After all, they seem to work. They are not dominating the meta.

What points would hybrids, purestrain and aberrants cost to have them be realistic alternatives?

I am wondering this:
Hyrbid Metamorph 8
Hand Flamer 3
Bone Sword 3
Metamorph Claw 2
1 metamorph tallon 1
2 metamorph tallon 3

Aberrants:
20
hammer 5
Improvised Heavy Weapon 10

Purestrain genestealer:
14

[hivefleetkerrigan]

metamorphs:
I don't have much experience with metamorphs, so I can't speak there.

Purestrains:
I do not think I'd find purestrains as worth it at 14 points. I'm not gaining a cult creed. Realistically, I might take them at 10-12 points.

Abberants:
I'll respond on abberants later when I have the chance to do some more analysis. Personal note: I have 20 painted ones ready to go so I'm hoping they get some point updates love; however, I'm afraid GW will hit them with a nerf hammer again. Haha.

niiai, what do you think on neophytes? I'm thinking they'd be a lot more attractive if they were 5ppm vs 6ppm. I'm curious as to your opinion here as you've done some extensive testing and had well reasoned arguments as to why they're not doing well in 9e.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I did some math hammer and I'm thinking about 25 ppm for abberants and about 15 points for the heavy improvised weapon.

I tried to basically bring abberants damage per point for a minimum unit inline with acolytes. It looked like this was around 25 ppm. I could see them pushing abberants to have a lower points cost as fair as it would allow abberants to compete with acolytes as acolytes have objective secured.

[niiai]

I am not sure regarding the neophytes. Let us just treat them as imperial guard units. They used to cost less points and then they where very good.

Take Alex list that I tryed. It had 90 neophytes for 540 points. Redusing that to 450... Well. I do not think it increase their kill potensial. You get 90 points more to buy an army for. I think perhaps it will make taking naked 10 neophytes to hold objectives better. Or to use them to screen charaters with. But I do not think that is where it is.

Also, GW is trying to limit number of models in the game. I doubt they will do that. Neophytes and other cheap models needs some rule on their datasheet to make them better.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

In a related note, I'm hoping that genestealers + acolytes/metamorphs go up to two wounds. It would really help reduce the cost of getting into GSC.

[niiai]

Yeah, that is a good arument for the money. It would also help diferensiate the 4 very similar units.

However, that would be a far away off. The new point updates is anounced and is on the horisont. While it is not a guarantee that we get a point drop, I have a hard time imagine no changes.

[kukie]

GSC needs something to be more survivable. I'm not sure making genestealers and acolytes 2 wounds will ever happen but they need something. A minus one to hit on Genestealers is fluffy and not overpowered. Genestealers need to bring something to the table other than just vanilla tyranid genestealers with no hivefleet or cult trait. They are just over priced worse versons of tyranid genestealers. the deep striking ability isn't worth it.

In the fluff the purestrain genestealers had control over the neophytes so a "fearless aura" for genestealers wouldn't break the game, be helpful and still fluffy. And give them the traits or make them cheaper and genestealers would be good and not broken.

my suggestion for making purestrain genestealers better is tweak their data sheet to have:
- minus one to hit
- always have 4 attacks (no need for 20)
- give off a fearless aura (like a synapse unit that tyranids have)

something like that

[No One]

I don't like an extra wound on acos, but T4 would be a nice bump (and then they're not weirdly T3 on 32s).

I haven't done any matthammer on any of this in a while, but my gut from memory:
- Metas to the same cost as acos base as you've done, probably make claws free, whip 1 pt, talon 1 pt each. Bonesword is bad and should be 1 pt.
- Aberrants maybe to ~20 ppm, 25 with hammer, 10 pts heavy improvised. 20 is probably too low, but I think 25 is a touch too high (https://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/969362/thread). Probably depends how much you want to push them: if it's the only pts change and you want to push GSC into at least a reasonable faction, 20. With other tweaks/don't care if GSC is still meh, 25. If GW aren't stupidly constraining to multiples of 5...probably 23?
- Purestrains...I'd say 12-14 pts, with similar caveats to aberrants.

hivefleetkerrigan said:

Purestrains:
I do not think I'd find purestrains as worth it at 14 points. I'm not gaining a cult creed. Realistically, I might take them at 10-12 points.

You don't gain a Creed, but compared to acos/metas:
- Have +2" move (basically half a Creed)
- Have a 5++ (better than half a Creed)
- Have +1 T (probably about as good as a full Creed)
- Have advance and charge (sort of better than a full Creed)
- Have more and/or better attacks depending on size/comparing load out

They lose obsec compared to acos, and weapon options (heavy/flamers/whips), but still. Like, they're better per model even with losing Creeds. They're just also stupidly overcosted at over twice their best competitor: but you can't drop them to basically the same price point.

kukie said:

my suggestion for making purestrain genestealers better is tweak their data sheet to have:

I mean, sure but that's not happening for ages. Points tweaks are coming in a fortnight.

[berserkguts]

Maybe the purestrain genestealers will get some rules as Kataphron Breachers/destroyers in the future, but who knows.