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Post by kwisatzhaderach on May 8, 2021 15:13:42 GMT
Here's my own attempt to put together a triple Hierodule list.
The basics of it remain the same - Malanthrope and Maleceptor provide some serious ranged defense in addition to the extremely tough T8 1+ save dules.
For Secondaries, I'm thinking:
-Deploy Scramblers
-Engage On All Fronts
-WWSWF
I think this list has legs as not only is it super tough, but it also has a bit of a hammer/anvil element to it.
Two squads of 30 devilgants, combined with lurking maws, is going to put hurt on whatever they shoot at.
The list also has a pretty decent mortal wound output, with 3 psykers that each have the ability to cast 2 powers a turn. So that's 3 smites, plus one psychic scream.
CP wise, I plan on putting both squads of devilgants into reserve, along with the 2 Lictors. That's 2 CP total so I'm down to 9. However, I think that's a fine spot to be in. Obviously I'll be spending more CP on Pheromone Trails but other than that, I don't anticipate spending many CP except on Pathogenic Slime or maybe regenerating wounds, or the occasional reroll.
Would love to hear your thoughts as I'm testing this build out tomorrow.
+++ Jorm Nidzilla Mark I (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [103 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] +++
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [103 PL, 11CP, 2,000pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Hive Fleet: Jormungandr
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Broodlord [7 PL, 125pts]: Power: Psychic Scream, Resonance Barb
Malanthrope [8 PL, 150pts]
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Catalyst, Warlord
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
Termagants [9 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer
Termagants [9 PL, 210pts]
. 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 51pts]
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 54pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]: Power: Lurking Maws
+ Heavy Support +
Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis
Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis
Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts]
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Post by dc0315 on May 8, 2021 20:05:20 GMT
Dont forget u r spending 2 cp a turn for encephallic diffusion to get the maleceptors points worth in your list. 2 CP for Pheromone Trail, 2 CP per turn for Maleceptor and 2 cp for pathogenic slime will eat your 9 cp. I would go with 1 unit of devourers since they cant both come out on same turn anyway as u cant use the same strat twice in the same turn, that saves u 1 cp and i maybe wont take the 2nd dermic symbiosis on 1 of the barbed to keep another CP. Thats 2 Cp saved. You already have 1 without dermic so having another wont be so damaging especially since u now have another turn with -1 strength thanks to the 2CP you saved, helping all your army and not just 1 barbed.
Also, why a broodlord? U r paying 30pts more than a neuro to not have reroll 1s but abit more offensive potential that has no place in your list. Of you remove 30 devilgants and replace blord with neuro u saved 240pts that could be better spent elsewhere
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Post by kwisatzhaderach on May 9, 2021 0:07:46 GMT
Dont forget u r spending 2 cp a turn for encephallic diffusion to get the maleceptors points worth in your list. 2 CP for Pheromone Trail, 2 CP per turn for Maleceptor and 2 cp for pathogenic slime will eat your 9 cp. I would go with 1 unit of devourers since they cant both come out on same turn anyway as u cant use the same strat twice in the same turn, that saves u 1 cp and i maybe wont take the 2nd dermic symbiosis on 1 of the barbed to keep another CP. Thats 2 Cp saved. You already have 1 without dermic so having another wont be so damaging especially since u now have another turn with -1 strength thanks to the 2CP you saved, helping all your army and not just 1 barbed. Also, why a broodlord? U r paying 30pts more than a neuro to not have reroll 1s but abit more offensive potential that has no place in your list. Of you remove 30 devilgants and replace blord with neuro u saved 240pts that could be better spent elsewhere So you are right that Encephalic will eat up CP, but I'm thinking that it's not going to get used every turn anyway as I am expecting to have destroyed certain anti-tank units by then. Broodlord is there for counter-charge potential. I expect I might have to deal with some CC threats and it's nice to have some backup there as opposed to another Neurothrope. I also have 2 units of devilgants as I'd like to get some more use out of Lurking Maws. But we'll see how it goes, I have a game with it tomorrow. If I did save the 240 points, where would you recommend I put it? |
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Post by No One on May 9, 2021 0:16:59 GMT
If I did save the 240 points, where would you recommend I put it? More gaunts: I don't think you've got enough scoring, and I think the barbeds suffer from wanting to be grouped up around your auras, limiting where you can project threat, especially with terrain. NB: I'm not sure you drop the devilgants, but think dropping the broodlord (or drop the neuro, either or) entirely is a good idea. You've got some output in cc, so you just need to stop chaff charges basically, which more gaunts helps with better for screening. You don't need more Synapse, and you're not really doing much with the psychic either. |
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Post by kwisatzhaderach on May 9, 2021 1:06:53 GMT
If I did save the 240 points, where would you recommend I put it? More gaunts: I don't think you've got enough scoring, and I think the barbeds suffer from wanting to be grouped up around your auras, limiting where you can project threat, especially with terrain. NB: I'm not sure you drop the devilgants, but think dropping the broodlord (or drop the neuro, either or) entirely is a good idea. You've got some output in cc, so you just need to stop chaff charges basically, which more gaunts helps with better for screening. You don't need more Synapse, and you're not really doing much with the psychic either. Hm, that's true, that is a good point about not having screening. What about something like this then? I drop the broodlord and the rippers for around 30 hormagaunts, and an additional warrior. +++ Jorm Nidzilla Mark I (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] +++ ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [106 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Hive Fleet: Jormungandr + Stratagems + Progeny of the Hive [-1CP] + HQ + Malanthrope [8 PL, 150pts] Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Catalyst, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops + Hormagaunts [9 PL, 132pts] . 22x Hormagaunt: 22x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts] . 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Termagants [9 PL, 210pts] . 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer Termagants [9 PL, 210pts] . 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 72pts]: Adrenal Glands . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons + Elites + Lictor [2 PL, 37pts] Lictor [2 PL, 37pts] Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]: Power: Lurking Maws + Heavy Support + Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) |
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Post by dc0315 on May 9, 2021 10:59:40 GMT
More gaunts: I don't think you've got enough scoring, and I think the barbeds suffer from wanting to be grouped up around your auras, limiting where you can project threat, especially with terrain. NB: I'm not sure you drop the devilgants, but think dropping the broodlord (or drop the neuro, either or) entirely is a good idea. You've got some output in cc, so you just need to stop chaff charges basically, which more gaunts helps with better for screening. You don't need more Synapse, and you're not really doing much with the psychic either. Hm, that's true, that is a good point about not having screening. What about something like this then? I drop the broodlord and the rippers for around 30 hormagaunts, and an additional warrior. +++ Jorm Nidzilla Mark I (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [106 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] +++ ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [106 PL, 11CP, 1,998pts] ++ + Configuration + Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Hive Fleet: Jormungandr + Stratagems + Progeny of the Hive [-1CP] + HQ + Malanthrope [8 PL, 150pts] Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Catalyst, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops + Hormagaunts [9 PL, 132pts] . 22x Hormagaunt: 22x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts] . 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Termagants [9 PL, 210pts] . 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer Termagants [9 PL, 210pts] . 30x Termagant (Devourer): 30x Devourer Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 72pts]: Adrenal Glands . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: 2x Scything Talons + Elites + Lictor [2 PL, 37pts] Lictor [2 PL, 37pts] Maleceptor [9 PL, 170pts]: Power: Lurking Maws + Heavy Support + Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis Barbed Hierodule [14 PL, 275pts] Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) To me the problem with double devilgants is that only 1 can come out with pheromone trail in a turn. The other would either have to come down t3 or from a table edge where your enemy can limit their usefulness. With SMA 1 Unit coynts as shooting twice, as if having 2 units on the table for the price of 1. Whereas a 2nd unit you are paying pts for just doesnt seem to get its points back when 1 unit is already doing the job for 2. The blord as a counter charge....itll do the counter charfe then die, he doesnt do much more than a neuro can do for tou. If you want to stop charges then as said above, just get more gants to screen, that can do actions, block deep strikes and give you more board control. |
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Post by dc0315 on May 9, 2021 11:01:45 GMT
And also, if you are not planning to use encephallic diffusion for atleast 3 of the 5 turns, then id just remove him. Hes a 170pts spent basically for access to a strat. Of you are not planni g to use that strat for moat of the game, then whats the point. Id rather take something that can hurt my opponent or score objectives then take something to use a strat once a game.
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 9, 2021 17:54:14 GMT
W/ 3 Barbed Dules, I would say the Maleceptor's ED would only be used turns 1/2, or 2/3 if they reserve lots of big guns. After that, you've either won or lost the long-range war and the Dules should be splitting to contest/hold Objs. The opponent not being able to kill things they need to kill is hurting the opponent, especially if they win first turn. The Heavy support slots being filled really keeps those extra points from doing much. IMO, the biggest thing Maleceptor does for the list is preserving the Dules Mobility, pts elsewhere can't do that.
2 DevGants in Jorm is worth it I think, SMA is not necessarily needed. W/ Lurking Maws, each unit can enter firing about 1.5 times at a single target. Most of the time SMA is overkill to ensure what you shot at is gone, but Jorm gants can reliably clear first volley w/ SMA being gravy. Bringing them in over two turns is far better than dropping 60 T2, especially so with Lurking Maws. The Lictor will also probably be alive to Pheromone the 2nd unit mid-board, can't see many wasting time with that when the 30-man blob w/ Obj Sec next to it NEEDS an answer. There is nothing better to spend the points on, as more Obj bodies are what is needed w/ the drop. They are also the best we have at clearing their preferred target, and one of the top two units with Jorm's psychic power (Shock are the other). The ability to save on CP from not necessarily needing SMA for DevGants will also help keep the Maleceptor CP needs from making a significant negative impact to offensive output.
Personally I would advocate for only 1 of the two following changes (both don't fit w/o some bigger changes). First is Neuro -> Tyrant, your choice of Fly/Walk. Flyrant would hold Maws/Scream and Jorm WL trait, and drop with the DevGants. Both would just be there to add a 4th power to the Smite/Catayls/Maws currently held, and some ranged and/or melee support that the Neuro can't. Second, increase the Warrior count. Either nix 2 Horms and AGs for a 5th War, or nix 12 Horms and bump the Wars to 8 (can take one of the Horm units -> gants for the 9th War). If you do the second option, ER on Wars vice a second Dermic.
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Post by kwisatzhaderach on May 10, 2021 16:51:29 GMT
W/ 3 Barbed Dules, I would say the Maleceptor's ED would only be used turns 1/2, or 2/3 if they reserve lots of big guns. After that, you've either won or lost the long-range war and the Dules should be splitting to contest/hold Objs. The opponent not being able to kill things they need to kill is hurting the opponent, especially if they win first turn. The Heavy support slots being filled really keeps those extra points from doing much. IMO, the biggest thing Maleceptor does for the list is preserving the Dules Mobility, pts elsewhere can't do that. 2 DevGants in Jorm is worth it I think, SMA is not necessarily needed. W/ Lurking Maws, each unit can enter firing about 1.5 times at a single target. Most of the time SMA is overkill to ensure what you shot at is gone, but Jorm gants can reliably clear first volley w/ SMA being gravy. Bringing them in over two turns is far better than dropping 60 T2, especially so with Lurking Maws. The Lictor will also probably be alive to Pheromone the 2nd unit mid-board, can't see many wasting time with that when the 30-man blob w/ Obj Sec next to it NEEDS an answer. There is nothing better to spend the points on, as more Obj bodies are what is needed w/ the drop. They are also the best we have at clearing their preferred target, and one of the top two units with Jorm's psychic power (Shock are the other). The ability to save on CP from not necessarily needing SMA for DevGants will also help keep the Maleceptor CP needs from making a significant negative impact to offensive output. Personally I would advocate for only 1 of the two following changes (both don't fit w/o some bigger changes). First is Neuro -> Tyrant, your choice of Fly/Walk. Flyrant would hold Maws/Scream and Jorm WL trait, and drop with the DevGants. Both would just be there to add a 4th power to the Smite/Catayls/Maws currently held, and some ranged and/or melee support that the Neuro can't. Second, increase the Warrior count. Either nix 2 Horms and AGs for a 5th War, or nix 12 Horms and bump the Wars to 8 (can take one of the Horm units -> gants for the 9th War). If you do the second option, ER on Wars vice a second Dermic. This ended up being pretty close to the truth. I used Encephalic on turns 1 and 2 and it ended up being a big deal, keeping the Dules at high HP, and actually saving a decent number of gaunts in the process as well. I did make some mistakes while playing the list and I chalk it up to inexperience as opposed to the list being bad. Adding in more warriors and upgrading to a Tyrant both seem like strong choices. I think in the context of the list, warriors are much better anyway since encephalic provides more protection. So as per your suggestin I'll drop a decent amount of hormagaunts for them, going down to one squad, and then buffing up the warriors. This actually came up in game but this army has a problem with Thin The Ranks, so reducing my downside there is a big deal. Will need to think about adding a Tyrant, but it does seem smart. And also, if you are not planning to use encephallic diffusion for atleast 3 of the 5 turns, then id just remove him. Hes a 170pts spent basically for access to a strat. Of you are not planni g to use that strat for moat of the game, then whats the point. Id rather take something that can hurt my opponent or score objectives then take something to use a strat once a game. So as to the point above, even with just a couple turns, it makes a big difference. By then, most of the enemy big guns are gone and the malanthrope has done its job keeping the dules alive. Being able to show up over 2 turns is nice. Yes it's certainly a points sink and CP sink, but I think in the context of the list you definitely benefit from some board control and anti-horde shooting. |
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Post by kreep on May 13, 2021 16:48:16 GMT
I'm not a fan of derm on the barbs with jorm 1+ save. Not much brings you below a 5+ anyway. Most savvy opponent's aren't worried about the brackets as they'll concentrate fire on 1 at a time. I'd be more inclined to take the jorm warlord trait to ignore cover within 3" of him and change the warlord to the malanthrope)
Either keep the other cp or get enhanced Res on a large blob of warriors.
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