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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 29, 2021 16:36:52 GMT
I think your list is looking much improved since the first iteration, the increased Dev counts will really help your Orc problem. I think the Warriors need LW + BS instead of BS. If your goal is to sit them on an objective, LW + BS will make sure they can hit back when charged. When attacking after a charging unit, LW + BS usually grants more hits than BS as most units that charge Warriors can kill at least 3-4 models. BS on Warriors work better in Kraken, Behemoth, or Hydra w/ Swarm Lord, but they still mainly just sit on objectives anyway because they are usually a low priority sling target.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 30, 2021 3:15:31 GMT
Either are fine- LWBS is a little Hive tech for screening out HG and as mentioned, just existing on a point. It won't do a great deal of damage, but it'll do something.
BS on the other hand on a big unit will feel pretty ok, but very lacklustre on a smaller unit. If you're gonna be aggressive with the 9 then sure, BS is ok, but if you're 5 or less, just stick with LWBS.
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 30, 2021 6:38:20 GMT
Hmmm, just checked my collection and it seems I only have 6 warriors anyway... Grrr
Would it be better running them together? Or in 2 units of 3?
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 30, 2021 6:42:36 GMT
Hmmm, just checked my collection and it seems I only have 6 warriors anyway... Grrr Would it be better running them together? Or in 2 units of 3? If I remember, your setup is the reroll 1 dice setup right? MSU supports that kind of approach the most. If they're just there to exist, I would bring 1 x 5 and call it a day. EDIT: the reroll setup is on the other thread, which I misremembered. Apologies. Definitely keep it as a unit of 5, which keeps you flexible for coherency and movement shenanigans |
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 30, 2021 7:43:10 GMT
3 are magnetised so I can put any setup on them. The others are boneswords with 2 death spitters and. VC
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 30, 2021 14:35:56 GMT
I would start adjusting the list w/ a 5-man unit that has 2 BS/DS and 3 LW&BS/DS. If you can spare the points, replace one BS/DS with the VC variant. Adding the 6th War as a second VC wouldn’t be terrible, Enhanced Resistance and Unyielding Chitin can help negate the increased shots received from blast. 5-man Warrior units shine brighter when taking 3+ of them, since your defensive tools are spread thin.
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Post by twistedmagpie on May 1, 2021 13:35:49 GMT
Ok, I have got another 3 warriors coming so.... ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 728pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Termagants [9 PL, 182pts]. 26x Termagant (Devourer): 26x Devourer + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [60 PL, 8CP, 1,269pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 220pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 270pts]: Adrenal Glands . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [97 PL, 8CP, 1,997pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by twistedmagpie on May 13, 2021 11:31:04 GMT
Hi, thanks again for everyone's input, it has been very very helpful.
I've been thinking about the lists in likely to face and considering some of the difficulties so wonder if o can terrible you for some more advice.
As the tournament is done in pairs (i.e. one game with me and Ork Vs admec and grey Knights, another me and admec Vs Ork and grey Knights etc).
In thinking that if I get spread further across the field (90 X 40 maps) then synapse may be more difficult to hold. Particularly when those hive tyrants could be focused down quite quick.
Also that with a more varied set of opponents I might not be well advised to move up ahead of my team mate so quickly. Perhaps kraken isn't the best hive fleet to use. I've been exploring the custom fleets more.
I also realised that with the admecs -1 to hit in ranged seriously degrades my reliable shooting so possibly the Kronos detachment isn't as worth it other than just trying to mitigate done of that penalty. It could be better to focus more on melee/ close range shooting.
Also having a single hive fleet means my synapse will hold better.
Is using the morphic sinews/ prey sight a good idea to increase my monsters effectiveness? I'm thinking that my units of gaunts/gants are so small that it could be good.
My main concern had been the amount of stuff that needs high strength attacks to defeat along with the balance of handling the Ork hordes (he's likely to take only 2 units of 30 boys and alot of vehicles; particularly the dragsters)
I really wanted to put the crushing claws on my carnifex but in kraken the only benefit they get is on the charge which balances the ws to 4+, however with the prey sight upgrade they are back to 3+ and a much better chance of killing what they charge in the first round. And with morphic sinewa they can advance, fire without penalty in turn 1, then get the charge turn 2 into something meety.
I've also realised that tunneling won't be very useful in most of the matchups because those Orks will be too numerous and the admec gunline filling the opponents deployment.
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Post by twistedmagpie on May 13, 2021 11:31:42 GMT
So how does this look? ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [96 PL, 10CP, 1,998pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostHive Fleet. Other: Morphic Sinews, Prey-sight + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 215pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, The Venomthorn Parasite, Toxin Sacs, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 195pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Warlord + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Termagants [6 PL, 133pts]. 19x Termagant (Devourer): 19x Devourer Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 270pts]: Adrenal Glands . Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 290pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Thresher Scythe, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Thresher Scythe, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Trygon [8 PL, 155pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxinspike Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon ++ Total: [96 PL, 10CP, 1,998pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on May 14, 2021 22:18:27 GMT
I'm not crazy about the fleet traits you've chosen. Normally the Custom fleets work well when doubling down on a specific strategy, I.E. Morphic Sinews and Hypermetabolic Acceleration for speedy shooting Carnifex, Synaptic Augmentation and Prey-sight for melee Nidzilla, or Biometallic Cysts and Feeding Frenzy for ST hordes. You've only got 3 units who really benefit from Morphic (Carnifex's and the Walkrant), and the Fex's only have a 4+ (really should have enhanced senses if taking a shooting fleet trait). You also don't have enough bodies to ensure that you get good benefit from Prey-Sight (good chance the Carnifex's get blown away before they charge).
I think Leviathan is a better choice for the list as it stands, as I'd think possible army-wide durability is more valuable compared to your custom choices and Leviathan is a good option for single-fleet generalist lists. Leviathan actually helps address your two main concerns: losing synapse from being too spread out, and losing synapse from the Tyrants dropping. Nexus can help you keep morale immunity while spreading out, and the 6+++ will help keep the Tyrants alive a little longer (either requiring more firepower to down or lasting another turn). You would also could have decent opportunities to use Levi's oft forgotten stratagem, helping out the Tyrants, Warriors, and Carnifex's if they multi-charge something (can even charge in the Neuro to trigger it).
I think a good idea would be to drop the tails from the Fex's and the Toxin Sacs from the MST Walktrant, and pump the DevGants to 21. I assume they are dropping with the Trygon, so the re-roll 1's when wounding is guaranteed and really helps boost output. If you decide to drop Prey-Sight, I would also change the Fex's to MST/Devs w/ Enhanced Senses or roll out the 2x2 Devs w/ Acid Maw. Both allow the Carnifex to do some decent shooting so even if they never charge they do something, and they can still do work if they do charge.
Another option could be to drop Morphic for Synaptic Augmentation (and keep Prey-Sight), and put HVC's on all the Tyrants/Carnifex. Would make the list much better against elites/vehicles, and you could ask your ally to focus more on infantry clear. Still have decent infantry shooting just between Wars/Gants, and could probably drop the VC's for DS and more Gants.
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Post by twistedmagpie on May 19, 2021 15:21:37 GMT
Thanks.
I'll be allied with all 3 of them at one point and don't have the option to ask them to build for specific things.
I've actually gone back to using kraken but with a monster based detachment....
++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [55 PL, 10CP, 1,126pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment Command Cost
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ Stratagems +
Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Resonance Barb, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Warlord
+ Troops +
Hormagaunts [6 PL, 120pts]
. 20x Hormagaunt: 20x Scything Talons
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 270pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]
. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon
++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [43 PL, -2CP, 874pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]
Hive Fleet
. Other: Metamorphic Regrowth, Prey-sight
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, The Venomthorn Parasite, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size
+ Troops +
Termagants [6 PL, 105pts]
. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer
+ Elites +
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Carnifexes [12 PL, 290pts]
. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms
Trygon Prime [10 PL, 195pts]: Adrenal Glands, Biostatic Rattle
++ Total: [98 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by twistedmagpie on Jun 7, 2021 17:33:03 GMT
In the end this is what I went with... ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [53 PL, 10CP, 995pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Broodlord [7 PL, 125pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Warlord + Troops +Hormagaunts [6 PL, 90pts]. 15x Hormagaunt: 15x Scything Talons Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 234pts]. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [50 PL, -2CP, 1,004pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet. Other: Prey-sight, Synaptic Augmentation + HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, The Venomthorn Parasite + Troops +Termagants [6 PL, 105pts]. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Bone Mace, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Trygon [8 PL, 155pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxinspike ++ Total: [103 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribeThanks for all your advice guys. I came first, won each and every single game I played in. (Including a 1v1 with the Orks) |
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