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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 26, 2021 20:07:28 GMT
Hi everyone, I am going to be playing in a friendly tournament very soon and I'm very new to 40k so I want to get some expert advice. The tournament is going to be a little unusual in that there are 4 of us and there will be 3 games, each consists of a 2000 or list each but we will take it in turns playing with an ally (1 each game). We will be sharing primary objectives but have individual secondaries. There is a predominantly ranged Admec player, an Ork player who will likely have alot of Boyz and a grey Knights player with alot of terminators. It's a very varied set of opponents so a fully rounded list is required. This is the list I've written for now.... ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [48 PL, 979pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Warlord + Troops +Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 69pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon Zoanthropes [14 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite . 6x Zoanthrope: 6x Claws and Teeth + Heavy Support +Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]. 2x Biovore: 2x Spore Mine Launcher Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [53 PL, 8CP, 1,021pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 210pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Resonance Barb, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms + Troops +Hormagaunts [9 PL, 126pts]. 21x Hormagaunt: 21x Scything Talons Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Termagants [6 PL, 120pts]. 10x Termagant (Devourer): 10x Devourer . 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [6 PL, 140pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Crushing Claws, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [101 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribeThe one thing I am concerned about is not having enough bodies to hold down objectives. But I really can't see where I would scrimp to gain them. Any ideas? |
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 26, 2021 20:13:44 GMT
Other models I own that could be included....
3 more carnifex
Another hive tyrant
Exocrine
2 more hive guard
3 venomthropes
Malceraptor
Tervigon
2 more lictors
Fair few more rippers and warriors
And many many gaunts and gants
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 27, 2021 17:23:30 GMT
I'd suggest swapping the numbers of Zoans/HG. 6x HG and 5x Zoans, the HG get more out of Kronos. 6x Zoans would be better if you were Levi and had the 6+++ to help fight through Blast. I would probably also drop the Biovores and Carnifex to add the Exo to Kronos, and then use the leftover pts for some more objective bodies. 1 Kronos Exo will give you more offense that the other 2 combined, and also allows you to address your major concern. One last, 2x DS on the Tyrant is not a great choice of weapon as the 2x Devs are better against most targets. That swap will also help fill the screen clear decrease from taking out the carnifex.
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 27, 2021 18:28:06 GMT
Thanks for the response. I have found the super smite from the zoenthropes to be really powerful. In the 2 games I've played against the admec player I have needed mortal wounds so much. He plays with a titan, the Knight Warden which I find incredibly difficult to deal with. He deep strikes it before the battle begins wherever my tyranofex isn't. The Ork player is also likely to play a Morkanaut. I also thought the biovores would be best for zoning the huge Ork numbers and controlling the field. Less offense of course but far more control. However I do think a exocrine would be a great addition. Us that loss of battlefield control worth it? How does this look? ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [50 PL, 1,015pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 69pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon Zoanthropes [14 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite . 6x Zoanthrope: 6x Claws and Teeth + Heavy Support +Biovores [4 PL, 100pts]. 2x Biovore: 2x Spore Mine Launcher Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [53 PL, 8CP, 984pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 225pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Paroxysm, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure + Troops +Hormagaunts [6 PL, 90pts]. 15x Hormagaunt: 15x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [6 PL, 90pts]. 15x Hormagaunt: 15x Scything Talons Termagants [6 PL, 105pts]. 15x Termagant (Devourer): 15x Devourer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Mawloc [6 PL, 130pts]: Toxin Sacs, Toxinspike ++ Total: [103 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribeThe carnifex had been swapped out for increasing one tyrant to the swarmlord because he's a beast and I've got a bunch of extra gaunts too. Still no exocrine to be honest but I'm loath to remove the biovores. Lots to think about. |
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Apr 27, 2021 20:52:43 GMT
The general consensus of other hive members seems to be that you need 3+ (usually 6) biovores to consistently block movement. With chargers being able to pile-in/consolidate regardless of being engaged, 1-2 mines doesn’t do much. Biovores are too expensive for what little they do atm, and are probably the weakest unit in the codex.
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 5:53:01 GMT
So I have considered options and decided to do the zoanthropes all together, if I don't have 6 I don't find them worth it. Also with an Ork enemy 2 out of three games that will easily overcome them on objective secured I don't think they'll do a great deal. With the points I've upgraded a hive tyrant to the swarmlord, purchased another carnifex and added a third biovore. What's the follow on thoughts? ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [38 PL, 765pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 69pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [62 PL, 8CP, 1,234pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 225pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Power: The Horror + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Termagants [9 PL, 150pts]. 20x Termagant (Devourer): 20x Devourer . 2x Termagant (Fleshborer): 2x Fleshborer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [100 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 5:53:53 GMT
So I have considered options and decided to do the zoanthropes all together, if I don't have 6 I don't find them worth it. Also with an Ork enemy 2 out of three games that will easily overcome them on objective secured I don't think they'll do a great deal. With the points I've upgraded a hive tyrant to the swarmlord, purchased another carnifex and added a third biovore. What's the follow on thoughts? ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [38 PL, 765pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Tyranid Warriors [4 PL, 69pts]. Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons . Tyranid Warrior: Deathspitter, Scything Talons + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Biovores [6 PL, 150pts]. 3x Biovore: 3x Spore Mine Launcher Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [62 PL, 8CP, 1,234pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 225pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Paroxysm, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Power: The Horror + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Termagants [9 PL, 150pts]. 20x Termagant (Devourer): 20x Devourer . 2x Termagant (Fleshborer): 2x Fleshborer + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [100 PL, 8CP, 1,999pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 29, 2021 6:29:02 GMT
You got a plan for the mawloc? He's in a weak place right now and you could do better on other options if you don't have a plan for him, even if its just having another 20 Hormagants...
Drop the warriors, fill out the Devilgant unit. This will help you immensely vs Orks when you need it.
AdMech.. oh adMech...
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 7:35:34 GMT
Mawloc does be well being able to pop it's strategem and guarantee some mortal wounds where needed, it's also a hell of a back line distraction. Either forwarding out weekly held rear objectives or causing the enemy to hold back units to deal with him.
And I really really love the model.
I've been using the warriors to boost bank line synapse so I can spread out. If this not worth their points?
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 7:43:51 GMT
Please bear in mind that I am new to this and I am mostly using theory hammer so please don't be afraid to tell me I'm being an idiot or that my plans won't actually wotk out the way I think they will
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Post by Bohxim on Apr 29, 2021 7:55:56 GMT
More importantly, are you an idiot sandwich?
I guess in the grand scheme of things, anything is an idiot sandwich to the tyranids.
Jokes aside, I feel if you wanna keep the kraken detachment, you should have the onslaught psychic power.. Since your stuff can't charge after advancing. And if you're using the gribblies for secondary actions, you wouldn't wanna advance much either. Why not go for a custom Fleet to give the gribblies 6++ or jorm for constant cover
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 29, 2021 8:54:03 GMT
Mawloc does be well being able to pop it's strategem and guarantee some mortal wounds where needed, it's also a hell of a back line distraction. Either forwarding out weekly held rear objectives or causing the enemy to hold back units to deal with him. And I really really love the model. I've been using the warriors to boost bank line synapse so I can spread out. If this not worth their points? If its working as a backline distraction, then its cool, keep with it. The key is that its there for a reason and you get a tangible benefit. Same with the warriors, although its common that there's at least 5 and there's the Enhanved Resistance adaptation to make them a fair bit resistant to damage and can score. If you're bringing them just for synapse, character protected Neurothrope will be sufficient most times. |
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 13:00:47 GMT
Interesting suggestion on the hive fleet. I chose kraken for the carnifex mainly, the ability to fall back and charge again make sure I thought first in all protracted fights and the carnifex get the added weapon skill in all my own phases. This iteration of the list has removed the biovores, in exchange I have boosted the warrior unit to 6 to include 2 VCS and added boneswords to increase there combat potential, moved then to the kraken detachment to play a more central table role instead. Does this look particularly better? ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 742pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Termagants [9 PL, 196pts]. 28x Termagant (Devourer): 28x Devourer + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [61 PL, 8CP, 1,258pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 225pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Tyranid Warriors [8 PL, 174pts]. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [98 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by twistedmagpie on Apr 29, 2021 13:28:58 GMT
Or this? 9 warriors, a solid unit to hold a centre objective even against Orks. However I have had to swap the swarmlord back to a standard hive tyrant. It s the lack of swarmlords punch worth it? I realised from your last post that I don't have catalyst either (from removing the zoanthropes) which is pretty essential. And putting that power on the flyrant or swarmlord seems dangerous because either is likely to be targeted and taken down. What do you think? ++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 742pts] +++ Configuration +Detachment Command CostHive Fleet: Kronos + HQ +Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Warlord + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 36pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Termagants [9 PL, 196pts]. 28x Termagant (Devourer): 28x Devourer + Elites +Hive Guard [12 PL, 225pts]. 5x Hive Guard (Impaler): 5x Impaler Cannon + Heavy Support +Tyrannofex [9 PL, 190pts]: Rupture Cannon . Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis ++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) [60 PL, 8CP, 1,258pts] +++ Configuration +Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 220pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught, Power: Smite, Resonance Barb, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms + Troops +Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Hormagaunts [3 PL, 60pts]. 10x Hormagaunt: 10x Scything Talons Tyranid Warriors [12 PL, 259pts]. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter . Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon . Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon + Elites +Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]+ Heavy Support +Carnifexes [12 PL, 270pts]. Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms . Carnifex: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Mawloc [6 PL, 125pts]: Toxinspike ++ Total: [97 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++Created with BattleScribe |
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Post by Bohxim on Apr 29, 2021 14:12:10 GMT
To me swarmie's main goal is to sling stuff as missiles with double move every turn. Stuff like dimachaerons, OOE or double scythe fexes. Or maybe even itself to do psychic ritual objective then move back into cover.
It rarely gets into Combat, and even if it does, it's usually turn 3 onwards. So imo, in your list, it'd be fine to drop it into a tyrant,they have the same general survivability against shooting. Doesn't seem that many prime targets to sling up across the board anyways. This way you can have a little shooting too and the same psychic abilities and you save on costs
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