A Theoretical Look At A 9th Edition Codex Hive Tyrant

[kwisatzhaderach]

A 9th edition Hive Tyrant is likely to be changed significantly from how it is now, but how?
For starters, a lot of new rules and concepts have been instituted since our codex.
Some of these are clues as to what a Hive Tyrant might look like when our codex rolls around, and I thought it might be fun to see what that looks like.

This document contains everything I expect we might see:
docs.google.com/document/d/1uwdqReMH0JE-tm_w2OpUc-d6SQyipkhqkjCWR7UYGGM/edit?usp=sharing

Potential wishlisting:
Statline wise, the Tyrant goes up to strength 7 base, and has a BS of 2+. It also gets the same degrading bracket as the FW monsters.

Rules wise, there are a few big changes.
First off, you can only take 1 per detachment. This is a rule that I expect will be implemented so might as well do it here too, right?

With our nerf out of the way:

• It can only lose a max of 6 wounds per phase. This protects the Tyrant from being killed unceremoniously in the first shooting phase of the game. A lot of big models gain this rule, it only follows the Hive Tyrant will as well!
• Its Synapse aura can't be removed or canceled for any reason. Fluffwise this makes sense. Designers are also cutting down on the "feels bad", and this is a prime example.
• It can now choose one unit to reroll 1's to hit and to wound during the command phase. Again, this creature should be leading things, not just being an efficient beatstick. This is also pushing more of its Commander aspect. 

Upgrades:
I brought back the old Hive Tyrant upgrades from 5th edition. This is something we see in 9th that HQs get - speciality upgrades that add flavor to the model.
So we see Hive Commander, Indescribable Horror, and Old Adversary brought back, in addition to one new one.

Biomorphs are the next section.
I bring back Regeneration and Extended Carapace. I also slightly rework Adrenal Glands, and fix Toxin Sacs.

Weapons are all brought up to their theoretical 9th edition equivalents; every weapon gets boosted in some way. 

Would love to hear your thoughts on this! 

[dranzyl]

There really isnt the reason to restrict HT to only one. Other armies have lore reasons that restrict chapter masters, archons, overlords etc. There is only one of them in a given faction or their hierarchy doesnt permit multiples. Those reasons dont apply to nids.

Having said that, i was annoyed that you couldnt take 'da biggest boss' (or whatever the stratagem was called in orks) if you took ghazkull. Even though there wasnt a lore reason not to (ghaz is kind of migratory boss taking over not always through killing the old boss).

What i am saying is some changes are made for lore reasons and not balance, but at the same time they may spill over .

[kwisatzhaderach]

Apr 23, 2021 11:24:30 GMT dranzyl said:

There really isnt the reason to restrict HT to only one. Other armies have lore reasons that restrict chapter masters, archons, overlords etc. There is only one of them in a given faction or their hierarchy doesnt permit multiples. Those reasons dont apply to nids.

Having said that, i was annoyed that you couldnt take 'da biggest boss' (or whatever the stratagem was called in orks) if you took ghazkull. Even though there wasnt a lore reason not to (ghaz is kind of migratory boss taking over not always through killing the old boss).

What i am saying is some changes are made for lore reasons and not balance, but at the same time they may spill over .

While that is true, I think that GW is all too aware of the HT spam lists of past editions. And, fluff can always change.
It is certainly a change that is more pessimistic in tone but it's something I expect. On the bright side, I think they can make it more worth it if you can only take one. 

[purestrain]

Apr 22, 2021 19:54:14 GMT kwisatzhaderach said:

A 9th edition Hive Tyrant is likely to be changed significantly from how it is now, but how?
For starters, a lot of new rules and concepts have been instituted since our codex.
Some of these are clues as to what a Hive Tyrant might look like when our codex rolls around, and I thought it might be fun to see what that looks like.

This document contains everything I expect we might see:
docs.google.com/document/d/1uwdqReMH0JE-tm_w2OpUc-d6SQyipkhqkjCWR7UYGGM/edit?usp=sharing

Potential wishlisting:
Statline wise, the Tyrant goes up to strength 7 base, and has a BS of 2+. It also gets the same degrading bracket as the FW monsters.

Rules wise, there are a few big changes.
First off, you can only take 1 per detachment. This is a rule that I expect will be implemented so might as well do it here too, right?

With our nerf out of the way:

• It can only lose a max of 6 wounds per phase. This protects the Tyrant from being killed unceremoniously in the first shooting phase of the game. A lot of big models gain this rule, it only follows the Hive Tyrant will as well!
• Its Synapse aura can't be removed or canceled for any reason. Fluffwise this makes sense. Designers are also cutting down on the "feels bad", and this is a prime example.
• It can now choose one unit to reroll 1's to hit and to wound during the command phase. Again, this creature should be leading things, not just being an efficient beatstick. This is also pushing more of its Commander aspect. 

Upgrades:
I brought back the old Hive Tyrant upgrades from 5th edition. This is something we see in 9th that HQs get - speciality upgrades that add flavor to the model.
So we see Hive Commander, Indescribable Horror, and Old Adversary brought back, in addition to one new one.

Biomorphs are the next section.
I bring back Regeneration and Extended Carapace. I also slightly rework Adrenal Glands, and fix Toxin Sacs.

Weapons are all brought up to their theoretical 9th edition equivalents; every weapon gets boosted in some way. 

Would love to hear your thoughts on this! 

Makes Tyrant guard usable with them as they are, also MST have str as User+1 when +1 typically works.  I also love the brainleechers actually doing something other than mowing infantry, but also at the same time making them basically twice as deadly vs hordes and chaff.

[kwisatzhaderach]

Apr 24, 2021 15:21:26 GMT purestrain said:

Apr 22, 2021 19:54:14 GMT kwisatzhaderach said:

Makes Tyrant guard usable with them as they are, also MST have str as User+1 when +1 typically works.  I also love the brainleechers actually doing something other than mowing infantry, but also at the same time making them basically twice as deadly vs hordes and chaff.

Thanks purestrain!
Yeah I wanted to separate out the Devourers and Deathspitters a bit more. Devourers used to have a LD check rule, I think back in the 3rd edition codex. I thought it would be fun to bring it back but in a more interesting way. 

[kazetanade]

Funny, there isn't a restriction for 1 Overlord per detachment for Necrons although there are lore reasons for it.

If they do go with that I hope the HT is a beast with like 7A that hits hard, and not a whimpy pincushion. The guns should be way more impactful too but that's probably too hard since Fexen also take the same guns.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Apr 26, 2021 17:03:29 GMT kazetanade said:

Funny, there isn't a restriction for 1 Overlord per detachment for Necrons although there are lore reasons for it.

If they do go with that I hope the HT is a beast with like 7A that hits hard, and not a whimpy pincushion. The guns should be way more impactful too but that's probably too hard since Fexen also take the same guns.

I'm thinking that the carnifex + hive tyrant guns will go up to 2 damage at least. I'm not sure what they're going to do for the cannons.

[kwisatzhaderach]

Apr 26, 2021 17:03:29 GMT kazetanade said:

Funny, there isn't a restriction for 1 Overlord per detachment for Necrons although there are lore reasons for it.

If they do go with that I hope the HT is a beast with like 7A that hits hard, and not a whimpy pincushion. The guns should be way more impactful too but that's probably too hard since Fexen also take the same guns.

Interesting, did not know that about the Overlord. In that case I'm probably off base with the 1-per-detachment, especially since there isn't really a lore reason for one hive tyrant either. I guess I'm too cynical! 

I think the changes I made to the Hive Tyrant are fairly significant buffs for a very minor points bump, though admittedly it's overcosted as is. 

Regarding weapons - what upgrades would you like to see? I did have to keep in mind the Carnifex as well during this for-fun idea.
That being said, with the changes I made, a Carnifex could be very scary - with 2x dual deathspitters, that's 12 Str8 AP-1 D2 shots, up to D3 if you use Pathogenic Slime. 

Apr 26, 2021 17:07:44 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

Apr 26, 2021 17:03:29 GMT kazetanade said:

Funny, there isn't a restriction for 1 Overlord per detachment for Necrons although there are lore reasons for it.

If they do go with that I hope the HT is a beast with like 7A that hits hard, and not a whimpy pincushion. The guns should be way more impactful too but that's probably too hard since Fexen also take the same guns.

I'm thinking that the carnifex + hive tyrant guns will go up to 2 damage at least. I'm not sure what they're going to do for the cannons.

Yeah I figured they might do everything up to at least D2, especially for deathspitters, but I figured they might leave devourers as more anti-infantry. If devourers went up to D2 they'd be insane, but I'd love it.