2k Kraken/Kronos varient for GT

[piersonsmuppet]

Thoughts on taking one gaunt unit in the Kronos patrol? Could be useful for Deepest Shadow plays T1. I don’t think there are any downsides to the change, since that unit will probably be the own deployment zone for scramblers when the opponent has no psykers.

[zimko]

Yeah that makes sense. I can do that.

[kazetanade]

I'm leaning on dropping the Barbed down to an Exocrene - you're Kronos, that barbed is always moving, doesn't match the profile. You already have a tonne of S8 -2ap shooting, you want some -3ap for those Marines that you don't want your Dima to waste time going after. Not everything has an invul you need to break through.

Thats 100pts iirc, dropping a 2x10 Horma gives you that nearly 30 Devilgants that you want, or a bigger Horma unit to work with.

[zimko]

I agree that I may be needing the Exocrine. It's a tough call.

[zimko]

I'm pretty set on taking the Barbed Hierodule. Having 'While We Stand' as a viable option is big against certain matchups. I haven't had a bad performance from him yet out of 7 games. So here's a few options I'm looking at.

(Double Dima but no Exocrine)
Kraken Battalion
- Broodlord: Res Barb, Onslaught, Warlord
- The Swarmlord: Catalyst, Paroxysm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hormagaunts x10
- Termagants x30 w/ Devourers
- Lictor
- Lictor
- Dimachaeron
- Dimachaeron

Kronos Patrol
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm
- Ripper Swarms x3
- Hive Guard x6: Enhanced Resistance
- Barbed Hierodule: Dermic Symbiosis


OR

(Exocrine and more Hormagaunts, but only 1 Dima)
Kraken Battalion
- Broodlord: Res Barb, Onslaught, Warlord
- The Swarmlord: Catalyst, Paroxysm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hormagaunts x10
- Termagants x30 w/ Devourers
- Lictor
- Lictor
- Dimachaeron

Kronos Patrol
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Ripper Swarms x3
- Hive Guard x6: Enhanced Resistance
- Barbed Hierodule: Dermic Symbiosis
- Exocrine

OR

(Exocrine and 23 more Devgants, only 1 Dima)
Kraken Battalion
- Broodlord: Res Barb, Onslaught, Warlord
- The Swarmlord: Catalyst, Paroxysm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Termagants x30 w/ Devourers
- Termagants x23 w/ Devourers
- Lictor
- Lictor
- Dimachaeron

Kronos Patrol
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hive Guard x6: Enhanced Resistance
- Barbed Hierodule: Dermic Symbiosis
- Exocrine

[zimko]

I'm leaning towards the 3rd option because it's more threats overall.

[kazetanade]

If you review your expected matchup profiles and army compositions, I think the double Dima turns up a bit short in terms of flexible killing power, and would go with Exo/Barbed/HG setup for more well rounded damage output. The catch is, of course, both the Barbed and Exo want Dermic, and HG want their stuff too. So you're stuck in this situation where you don't have the tools in a lean list to support the pillars, and are putting them at risk for underperformance, unless you take the risk of those Artillery and buff both Monsters instead of the HG (which granted, the monster use it more often than the HG do).

With that in mind, I'd work on the basis of Devilgants x2, or bigger Horm squads to sow chaos. Assuming your main concern is actually damage compared to holding objectives, I'd stick with the 2x Devs so that you have high volume chip and horde clear, and hopefully the Barbed + HG double shoot is enough to tide you through.

In conclusion:

Barbed/Exo/HG > Barbed/HG/double Devils > Barbed/HG/double Dima > Barbed/HG/More Horms

Edit: misread, the Exo is in all of them other than the double Dima. So the choice is between more Horms or more Devilgants basically. Out of the two, I'd opt for more devilgants in general, unless you're weird like me and run Behemoth, in which case you definitely want that 30 man Hormagant for lulz. No one expects a unit of 30 Hormagants to actually kill anything, so its really funny when u score a surprise 3 or 4 marine kills on his objective, then pop Savage Distraction to be annoying if the situation allows.

[hiveoverall]

I like the 3rd list a lot too, but I would probably go for a big blob of hormagaunts instead of the 23 devilgaunts. You can use the blob if you go first against slow armies like DG or DWing to move them 1' away from their deploiyment lines and block them of primary objectives turn 1.

If you think there will be lots of druk and other "soft" targets then your list is fine, the 23 devilGs will come in handy no doubt !!

[zimko]

May 3, 2021 9:24:30 GMT hiveoverall said:

I like the 3rd list a lot too, but I would probably go for a big blob of hormagaunts instead of the 23 devilgaunts. You can use the blob if you go first against slow armies like DG or DWing to move them 1' away from their deploiyment lines and block them of primary objectives turn 1.

If you think there will be lots of druk and other "soft" targets then your list is fine, the 23 devilGs will come in handy no doubt !!

I can use the 23 devilgaunts to do the same movement blocking trick. It may just require 2 CP to do it (1 for double advance, and 1 for metabolic). I can also put 1 devgant blob into reserves, and start the other behind obscuring. Then on turn 1 use a double advance and Onslaught to move them up to 18" with kraken and shoot into cultists or poxwalker or something like that, clearing the way for the Dima to Hive Commander into something good, or allowing the Hive Guard to shoot some Oblits that were going to be hidden by the cultists.

So basically, if given the choice between a large blob of Hormagaunts, or an equal points of devgants, the devgants are going to win in a TAC list IMO.

[hiveoverall]

May 3, 2021 13:13:40 GMT zimko said:

May 3, 2021 9:24:30 GMT hiveoverall said:

I like the 3rd list a lot too, but I would probably go for a big blob of hormagaunts instead of the 23 devilgaunts. You can use the blob if you go first against slow armies like DG or DWing to move them 1' away from their deploiyment lines and block them of primary objectives turn 1.

If you think there will be lots of druk and other "soft" targets then your list is fine, the 23 devilGs will come in handy no doubt !!

I can use the 23 devilgaunts to do the same movement blocking trick. It may just require 2 CP to do it (1 for double advance, and 1 for metabolic). I can also put 1 devgant blob into reserves, and start the other behind obscuring. Then on turn 1 use a double advance and Onslaught to move them up to 18" with kraken and shoot into cultists or poxwalker or something like that, clearing the way for the Dima to Hive Commander into something good, or allowing the Hive Guard to shoot some Oblits that were going to be hidden by the cultists.

So basically, if given the choice between a large blob of Hormagaunts, or an equal points of devgants, the devgants are going to win in a TAC list IMO.

Actually you are right on this, tehre is enough movement here for a 6 or 8 move not to matter. Also, devgaunts will not work much on these slow but tough armies so might as well sacrifice them

[kazetanade]

May 3, 2021 13:13:40 GMT zimko said:

May 3, 2021 9:24:30 GMT hiveoverall said:

I like the 3rd list a lot too, but I would probably go for a big blob of hormagaunts instead of the 23 devilgaunts. You can use the blob if you go first against slow armies like DG or DWing to move them 1' away from their deploiyment lines and block them of primary objectives turn 1.

If you think there will be lots of druk and other "soft" targets then your list is fine, the 23 devilGs will come in handy no doubt !!

I can use the 23 devilgaunts to do the same movement blocking trick. It may just require 2 CP to do it (1 for double advance, and 1 for metabolic). I can also put 1 devgant blob into reserves, and start the other behind obscuring. Then on turn 1 use a double advance and Onslaught to move them up to 18" with kraken and shoot into cultists or poxwalker or something like that, clearing the way for the Dima to Hive Commander into something good, or allowing the Hive Guard to shoot some Oblits that were going to be hidden by the cultists.

So basically, if given the choice between a large blob of Hormagaunts, or an equal points of devgants, the devgants are going to win in a TAC list IMO.

Pretty much, yes. Devgants > Hormagants unless Behemoth for strategem + spell combinations.

[zimko]

Thanks to windwalkerranger's post in Tactics, I'm making a slight adjustment. Adding 2 Pyrovores in place of a Lictor and 3 Devgants.

Kraken Battalion
- Broodlord: Res Barb, Onslaught, Warlord
- The Swarmlord: Catalyst, Paroxysm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Termagants x30 w/ Devourers
- Termagants x20 w/ Devourers
- Lictor
- 2 Pyrovores
- Dimachaeron

Kronos Patrol
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm
- Hormagaunts x10
- Hive Guard x6: Enhanced Resistance
- Barbed Hierodule: Dermic Symbiosis
- Exocrine

This means I have the option of placing the 20 devgants AND the pyrovores into strategic reserves for 1 CP. The Pyrovores are also a much more annoying Infantry unit than the Lictor for scramblers and objectives. They also trade well into DE since it's a waste of time to shoot them and charging them means potentially losing valueable models to mortal wounds and overwatch.

[piersonsmuppet]

Splitting them might give a little more flexibility. Whatever kills them is probably going to over-kill, might as well make them waste 2 units. Would also help for when you need to use the lictor to Pheromone Trail the gants mid-board and want to have a good scrambler plan B for if the lictor dies (2x 60mm bases along the board edge isn't impossible to screen). Would also give the option to start 1 on the board for T1 scramblers instead of using the gaunts.

[zimko]

Yeah I thought about that. But for the DE matchup specifically, I usually take 'Grind them Down' so adding 2 fragile units instead of just 1 will make that secondary more difficult. The Lictor can deploy scrambler whether he's bringing in Termagants or not. Usually the only times I need him to bring in the termagants is if I want them to arrive inside my opponent's deployment zone since strategic reserves doesn't allow me to do that on turn 2. In that case, the Lictor can deploy scramblers. Granted it would be more flexible to have 2 units, but it's not overly difficult to accomplish Scramblers without doing so. Therefore I'd like to keep them as 1 unit to help me with Grind them Down since that is a more difficult secondary.

[piersonsmuppet]

I'm always battling terrain, screening, and SM auspex, so I don't think I've deployed devgants w/o Pheromone somewhere mid-board in a while. I play on more WTC terrain styled tables though, most streams seem a bit sparse on terrain compared to what I usually play on (which is still slightly under the Core Rules recommendation), so maybe my perspective isn't the best for a GT styled list. I think the hedge towards the all or nothing secondary is safer, but failing to complete scramblers even with only 1 Lictor is difficult to do...so extreme minority case at best. I've not played against DE, so I'm not sure how well the army can control board edges while accomplishing VPs. If it works, will be even better with the Dallas GT results making DE even more popular at tournaments. I look forward to your results.