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Post by beetlejuice on Apr 28, 2021 17:00:23 GMT
I’m a bit split on warp timing morty. I know most people claim it’s legal if you ”unlock” it with a non DG detachment but I don’t really see how that works with p162 from CSM codex:
” Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section”.
Does it matter if you have the correct keywords (heretic astartes), if you ”can’t make use of any of the rules” (referencing stratagems, psychic powers etc). It’s similar to our nids/GSC FAQ so the RAI anti soup synergy seems clear even though that’s what chaos are famous for... The biggest problem is Word bearers det to unlock daemonforge and prescience for PBC but I guess 2CP and losing -1T contagion is a fair price for those buffs. Stupid messy GW rules writing... really wished they would have written Death Guard and Thousand sons legions with keywords instead so it would be clear.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 28, 2021 18:51:50 GMT
They did. They specifically allowed it in theirs, and specifically disallowed it in ours. Its basically biased treatment.
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Post by No One on Apr 29, 2021 10:57:55 GMT
More specifically, they allowed strats for everyone but SM, GSC and daemons (despite SM having almost identical wording, and GSC having functionally identical wording: daemons at least had a very explicit FAQ). Powers were never mentioned. And that was only in a core book FAQ so no longer exists . (Everyone I've asked who doesn't play has said we can, so...take as you will).
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Post by wormlord666 on May 6, 2021 21:01:03 GMT
My next game will be DG and yet again Mortarion... This is a very good player that I hardly ever beat. He always playes the best lists. He prefers a defensive style so I expect to see wwswf and the poxwalker secondary. We’ll soon se what mission it is, but this feels like a bad matchup.
++ Supreme Command Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [25 M Plague Company
Mortarion [25 PL, 490pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Curse of the Leper, Attendant's claws and teeth, Phosphex bombs, Silence, Smite, The Lantern, Warlord
++ Battalion Detachment
Plague Company: The Inexorable
+ HQ +
Death Guard Daemon Prince [10 PL, 185pts, -1CP]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Rotten Constitution, Foetid Wings, Hellforged sword, Malefic talons, Plaguechosen, Smite, Suppurating Plate
Malignant Plaguecaster [5 PL, 95pts]: 4. Putrescent Vitality, Blight grenades, Corrupted staff, Krak grenades, Smite
+ Troops +
5 plague Marines [6 PL, 125pts] one blight launcher
2*. 20x Poxwalker
+ Elites +
Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 215pts, -1CP] . Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Champion of Disease, Combi-melta, Plaguebringer . Blightlord Terminator: Flail of corruption . Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Blight launcher . Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter . Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
Deathshroud Terminators [7 PL, 150pts] . Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlet . 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
Tallyman [4 PL, 70pts]: Blight grenades, Krak grenades, Plasma pistol
+ Fast Attack +
Chaos Spawn [3 PL, 69pts] . 3x Chaos Spawn: 3x Hideous mutations
2 * Chaos Spawn [1 PL, 23pts] . Chaos Spawn: Hideous
+ Heavy Support +
2 * Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
This is bad news for exo and hg with -1 dmg. And bad news for devgaunts with T5 and 2+ saves. I’ll have to figure out a way to play the mission.
Can I kill Mortarion? HG shooting twice and Dima fighting twice, hon much is left then?
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Post by No One on May 6, 2021 23:00:03 GMT
Can I kill Mortarion? HG shooting twice and Dima fighting twice, hon much is left then? Assuming they were sensible and took gloaming, no miasma (1st or failed), and you somehow manage to get 2 dima fights without being killed horribly, 13 wounds.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 7, 2021 3:36:46 GMT
Can I kill Mortarion? HG shooting twice and Dima fighting twice, hon much is left then? Assuming they were sensible and took gloaming, no miasma (1st or failed), and you somehow manage to get 2 dima fights without being killed horribly, 13 wounds. That answers my question: No I can not kill him...
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Post by kazetanade on May 7, 2021 3:56:52 GMT
Mortarion without warp time will need 2 turns to make it into anything meaty, so you have time.
He also has nothing that deflects a Dimachaeron - unless the Daemon Prince gets into him, and its easy for you to snipe him with said Dima.
HG double shoot into the Deathshroud should kill them, its only 9 wounds.
Mortarion will need 2-3 turns to chew through a 30 man devilgaunt squad with catalyst.
Inexorable doesn't work with "defensive". Their contagion is -1ap extra when within contagion range, and as a mixed army, he will need to get into your face with not Morty to maximize it, and he doesn't have anything that does that.
Essentially: play around Mortarion and feed him fodder and smites. Send the Dimachaerons into the backfield on the Prince and the PBC, have devilgants blow the poxwalkers away/screen Morty, HG and exo can chip at the Terminators/ blow the Poxwalkers away (cuz Blightlords aren't terribly frightening in of themselves). He'll struggle on primary and find himself unable to score the pox secondary, putting himself at a huge disadvantage.
More likely than not, He'll keep Mortarion back for fear of your Dimas going all in on his backline, cuz he knows he can't deflect it if he's a good player. Send the first Dima into the Blightlords, HG into the Deathshroud, and contest the map - He'll die a slow death. If he kept both terminators in the sky, send out chaff and focus fire all guns on clearing the poxwalkers - a single PBC does damage you can tank or ignore without much trouble. (Edit: misread, I see its 2. 2 could be dangerous for MCs, and a high swing could take your HG down to half, but if he accidentally leaves an open opportunity, you can send a Dima straight into one or both, as killing even 1 makes things a lot less dangerous.
Either way, this match up is in your favour.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 7, 2021 5:11:06 GMT
Mission will be the scouring, which is hold 2 for five and very centralized objectives.
Kaze’s analysis is inspiring. I will try my best. With this mission I might consider deploying gaunts. If he chooses the poxwalker secondary, he will have to get them in range. And I must keep on flooding the board with trops.
Secondaries will be tough. I`ll probaly go for engage and scramblers, but the third one is hard. Mayby the mission one, with Scan? 6 ”Easy” points but hard with more...
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Post by beetlejuice on May 7, 2021 7:00:24 GMT
Don’t expect to kill both mortarion, 2 PBC, poxwalkers and termies. Make sure you don’t feed him midfield targets turns 1-2 that he can charge, that slingshot manoeuver is the only mobility trick DG has. If they only footslog they don’t hurt as much. I’d probably kill those spawns to mess with his scoring plans.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 18, 2021 6:16:27 GMT
I will finally play my next game this week and will get back to you as soon as possible with results. I have played this game in my head and pictured different scenarios since it has bben a long wait. I do not like to pick secondaries in this game. There will be 2 good picks but the third will be a bad one. Forcing me to kill things from him or having thing survive on my side is bad bad bad againts DG as I see it. I can argue for taking grind em down but that would have me chasing small useless units from him and if I go first he can deny me this easy. I do not want to waste a psyker to do actions when they all have other tasks to do like providing synaps and aura, shooting poxwalkers and catsing valuable spells, so the psycic action based ones are not to apealing, but mental interrogation is an option. Leaves me with the mission one that I should get 6 from, but 10 will be hard.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 23, 2021 5:45:46 GMT
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Post by No One on May 23, 2021 7:59:44 GMT
I had hoped for his T8 and 5++ would keep him alive and shoot the prince in next turn but the re-roll of wounds in his army is strong. Pretty sure there's no way to get full wound rrs for a DP, and basically no way to even get rr 1s.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 23, 2021 8:54:13 GMT
I had hoped for his T8 and 5++ would keep him alive and shoot the prince in next turn but the re-roll of wounds in his army is strong. Pretty sure there's no way to get full wound rrs for a DP, and basically no way to even get rr 1s. Ok, then I might be misremembering, I don`t think he did that kind of misstake. I was probably just unlucky there. The Prince has 6 attacks and S8 with the sword and they are dmg 3 so it is possible that he just had a good fightphase. With the Tallyman givning CP man commandphases he had lots of cp left so mayby he did a cp re-roll and I just mistook it. I suspect no foul play here. It is not that kind of a guy.
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Post by wormlord666 on May 24, 2021 4:36:25 GMT
This week I’ll be facing another Death Guard list and another Mortarion. There is actually a wide spred of factions in the tournament but I got both DG and all 3 mortarions. 😉
Supreme Command Plague Company: The Inexorable
Mortarion [25 PL, 490pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 5. Curse of the Leper, Attendant's claws and teeth, Gloaming Bloat, Phosphex bombs, Silence, Smite, The Lantern, Warlord
Vanguard detachement
Plague Company: The Inexorable
HQ Typhus [9 PL, 165pts]: Blight grenades, Master-crafted manreaper, Smite
Troops Poxwalkers [5 PL, 90pts] . 18x Poxwalker: 18x Improvised weapon
Poxwalkers [5 PL, 90pts] . 18x Poxwalker: 18x Improvised weapon
Elites
Blightlord Terminators [10 PL, 210pts, -1CP] . Blightlord Champion: Balesword, Champion of Disease, Combi-bolter, Plaguebringer . Blightlord Terminator: Flail of corruption . Blightlord Terminator: Blight launcher, Bubotic Axe . Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter . Blightlord Terminator: Balesword, Combi-bolter
Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 2x Twin volkite culverin
Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts, -1CP]: 2x Twin volkite culverin
Deathshroud Terminators [7 PL, 150pts] . Deathshroud Champion: Manreaper, Plaguespurt gauntlet . 2x Deathshroud Terminator: 2x Manreaper, 2x Plaguespurt gauntlet
Foul Blightspawn [5 PL, 85pts]: Blight grenades, Krak grenades, Plague sprayer, Revolting Stench-vats, Unholy death's head grenade, Viscous Death
Tallyman [4 PL, 70pts]: Blight grenades, Krak grenades, Plasma pistol
+ Heavy Support + Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar Plagueburst Crawler [9 PL, 175pts]: 2x Entropy cannon, Heavy slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
So herre the dreads are a big problem and they get rerolls and support from characters.
We will play mission 32, sweep and clear. I expect him to take wwswf, direct assault and domination and just park tough stuff in the middle. I’ll have to figure out a way to play around that.
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