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Post by swarmboi on Jan 18, 2021 19:56:43 GMT
Hi all, I need help from your collective minds with building a competitive army for a
1,600 game against druhkari, second time I'm against this foe, first time absolutely smashed (I mainly ran melee units) as it was a filler game and didn't have all my models done. So I actually have a 10,500k tyranid swarm so have most models. Any assistance would be much appreciated...
I also know he is running 3 talos under covern rules so have a 4+ invulnerability plus power from pain....they scare me!
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Post by niiai on Jan 18, 2021 20:42:00 GMT
I know how they played back in the day. They have superior mobilaty and range. If you atemt to kill them in melee they just kite you. Shoot down their transports and boats and they become easier to deal with.
While poison is good VS big bugs they are very bad VS gaunts.
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Post by swarmboi on Jan 18, 2021 21:04:02 GMT
Thanks - how would you deal with them...initially I was thinking of fielding the below
1 x old one eye
20 x genesteelers (extended carapace)
20 x genesteelers (extended carapace)
20 x termagant (fb)
20 x termagant (fb)
3 x zoanthrope
2 x carnifexes (heavy venom canon)
1 x tyranofex (rupture canon)
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Post by niiai on Jan 18, 2021 21:30:29 GMT
I think you will be running around chasing him. So much melee. And your shooting is a couple of high damage guns. Against D Eldar you just need volume of fire for their boats are not that strong.
If you are playing with that perhaps you can herd him away from objects? He will try to kite you I think, so use that. Also, his haemoculy units are not that fast.
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Post by swarmboi on Jan 18, 2021 21:59:47 GMT
No objectives on this one just a points lost game, would you go more shooty then? Warriors, hive guard? I have just painted up 50 gargoyles that have never been tested...
My full nids list...
3 x bloodlord
1 x swarmlord
1 x neurothrope
3 x winged hive tyrants
1 x hive tyrant
1 x old one eye
1 x tervigon
120 x.genesteelers
150 x hormagaunts
130 x termagaunts
4 x ripper swarms
20 x.warriors
12 x hive guard
3 x tyrant guard
6 x.venomthropes
10 x zoanthrope
50 x gargoyles
4 x raveners
4 x biovores
6 x carnifexes
2 x screamer killers
2 x exocrines
2 x mawlocs
1 x trygon prime
2 x tyrannofex
2 x hive crone
1 x tyrannocyte
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Post by yoritomo on Jan 18, 2021 22:41:17 GMT
You need to change the mission. Tyranids are the punching bag of armies. We win games because we can afford to loose models. If the game becomes who can put out more offense tyranids will lose every time.
If it were me I’d run three broodlords and 175 devilgaunts. You’ve got three smites for any talos or vipers that get close and a 500 shot bubble for any infantry that want to say hi.
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Post by swarmboi on Jan 18, 2021 23:03:36 GMT
He's essentially running the below minus the VR bomber instead 3 talos
++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [81 PL, 1,584pts, -3CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment CP [-3CP]
Obsession: Mixed Detachment
+ HQ +
Archon [4 PL, 70pts]: Blast Pistol, Venom Blade
+ Troops +
Kabalite Warriors [6 PL, 115pts]
. 7x Kabalite Warrior: 7x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Splinter Cannon
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [6 PL, 115pts]
. 7x Kabalite Warrior: 7x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Splinter Cannon
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 55pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 55pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior: 3x Splinter Rifle
. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
+ Elites +
Sslyth [1 PL, 21pts]
Sslyth [1 PL, 21pts]
Sslyth [1 PL, 21pts]
Sslyth [1 PL, 21pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Ravager [8 PL, 160pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon
Ravager [8 PL, 160pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon
+ Flyer +
Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 170pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Disintegrator Cannons: 2x Disintegrator cannon
Voidraven [9 PL, 185pts]: Two dark scythes, Voidraven Missiles
+ Dedicated Transport +
Raider [5 PL, 95pts]: Dark Lance, Shock Prow
Raider [5 PL, 95pts]: Dark Lance, Shock Prow
Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle
Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle
Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle
++ Total: [81 PL, -3CP, 1,584pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by yoritomo on Jan 19, 2021 0:54:55 GMT
That’s an illegal list.
Unless I’m missing something he needs a second HQ to run a battalion. He’s also limited to 3 elite choices, he has 4. The minimum size for a warrior squad is 5, two of his are 3 man squads.
You really need to be playing missions. Your opponent has ditched just about anything he would hold an objective with. This allows him to bring more guns to shoot at you. And anything you would normally bring with a heavy weapon to deal with it is countered by poison.
Missions and objectives keep your opponents honest.
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Post by No One on Jan 19, 2021 1:15:01 GMT
Unless I’m missing something he needs a second HQ to run a battalion. He’s also limited to 3 elite choices, he has 4. The minimum size for a warrior squad is 5, two of his are 3 man squads. You can run 6 elites...in a battalion (he also couldn't run 4 troops in a patrol). The warriors are 5, it's just battlescribe formatting (3 guys, 1 guy with big gun, 1 sarge). He's essentially running the below minus the VR bomber instead 3 talos Umm...sure, I guess he can just give up his Obsessions... He needs to be bringing more than just the talos' for that. In addition to what yori said: - Hive guard are great if you've got the terrain to hide them. They're not exactly super happy with hit negs, but DE are paper boats so you basically pick up one per turn (possibly needing double tap). - Exocrine's our other good shooting unit: with Kronos rrs, also basically picks up a boat per turn, almost 2 with pathogenic and/or symbiostorm. - Hive tyrant /w murderous size+Swarmlord. If you can hide from the dissies T1 (and TBH, even if you can't at S6 with 4++, you should be OK), you get to basically pick a boat and pick it up. Possibly 2 if they come closer, or are grouped together so you can charge multiple. Take out the ravagers and/or the razorwing and there's not much that can hurt you quickly enough to matter (unless they spike a dark lance, but hey). While poison is good VS big bugs they are very bad VS gaunts. It's OK (outside Dark Technomancers, but that's more Dark Technomancers): AP0 D1 means a venom with double splinter does just a bit over 1 wound. Which is a fair bit for a 75 pt non-AT unit that's also a flexible and mobile transport, but not at the point where they're able to pick up MCs left and right with them or anything. |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Jan 19, 2021 1:23:50 GMT
Drukhari might be the only army that relies on bullying more than we do. All melee is letting them kite with impunity, and no objectives means they don't have any risk of having to expose, whereas all your damage comes from <12". You should be losing under this scenario, as others have explained there is no reason to cherry pick half the rules but not the ones that don't fit.
Ask to swap one game and see how quickly the rules change. Some people just don't realize that their "fun" only happens when all they do is pick up buckets of your models while being immune to return damage. These aren't fun, they are monotonous and genuinely a waste of your time, because you are not interacting, you are NPC'ing.
At best Drukhari are direct counters to Nids, under these circumstances there is little point in trying to win at all.
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Post by swarmboi on Jan 19, 2021 8:50:46 GMT
Thanks for the help and assistance on this one.
It has been stated that he cannot run 3 talos with the individual covern unless he runs a HQ unit alongside he has stated this:-
"If you run them as one army but Individual detachments then they keep their individual obsessions"
Is the above correct? He has stated this is a. Auxillary support detachment that states this can only be one unit in the rules
Have also asked this to be an objective mission
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Post by No One on Jan 19, 2021 9:33:44 GMT
It has been stated that he cannot run 3 talos with the individual covern unless he runs a HQ unit alongside he has stated this:- "If you run them as one army but Individual detachments then they keep their individual obsessions" Is the above correct? He has stated this is a. Auxillary support detachment that states this can only be one unit in the rules He's correct that they need to be in different detachments. But that cannot be an aux support det, and there's no other det you can take talos in without HQs. BRB, Detachments (pg 246) |
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Post by swarmboi on Jan 19, 2021 14:40:44 GMT
Thanks for all your help on this one! I do appreciate it. The 4+ invulnerability has gone he misinterpreted the rules. We are though still going to play the initial game so no doubt I'll lose but even in loss I want to take a chunk out of his DE, so alot of ideas (great ideas) on what to field..anymore would be much appreciated??
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Post by zimko on Jan 19, 2021 17:33:42 GMT
A Kronos patrol with Neurothrope, rippers and 2 Exocrines is a good place to start against him. Exocrines with double shooting, rerolling 1s and pathagenic slime (+1 damage stratagem) AND the Kronos psychic power (6+ to hit generate extra hits) will pick up a lot of his army. If the Ravagers are in range, then shoot them. If not then kill whatever is in range. Dont waste your shots on Talos unless they are the only thing available to shoot.
For talos, the best way I know of to kill them is with a big monster that does a lot of damage. So a Super Flyrant might do it. Take a Behemoth Battalion with a Flyrant equiped with wings, Scything Talons (take the Scythes of Tyran relic), your choice of ranged weapon or just rending claws to keep him cheap, toxin sacs. Give him Murderous Size. Then take a Swarmlord. Launch the Flyrant right at the Talos, give him the +1 to wound power and use the reroll wounds stratagem. Attack and double attack. Every 2 failed invuln save is a dead talos. Use Catalyst on him to keep him alive.
For the rest of the Battalion, you can take Warriors and gants. Warriors are decently effective against Eldar since most Eldar saves are weak, you can keep the warriors cheap with double scything talons. Take objectives and protect the Exocrines. Use the Swarmlord to back up the Flyrant.
Normally I'd suggest Hive Guard but Hive Guard struggle against targets like Venoms and Flyers with a natural -1 to hit. You'll get more bang for your buck taking other stuff at this point level.
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Post by yoritomo on Jan 19, 2021 18:41:02 GMT
He's not playing objectives.
The best thing to deal with those venoms is the T-fex. 2D6 auto hits makes flyers cry. It's only got an 18" range, so you've got to get him close; but his acid spray will tear up any dark eldar vehicle. Keeping him alive will be a challenge though.
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