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Post by hiveoverall on Nov 23, 2020 17:08:09 GMT
Edit from 10 December
DETACHMENT : kraken Batallion HQ1 : Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Rending Claws, 2 Brain-L devourers, Resonance Barb, Onslaught, Psy Scream [175] HQ2 : Neurothrope, Catalyst [95] HQ3 : Swarmlord, [Kraken] Synaptic Lure, The Horror [270] Troup1 : 3 Ripper Swarms) [36] Troup2 : 3 Ripper Swarms [36] Troup3 : 3 Ripper Swarms [36] Troup4 : 10 Termagants [50] Elite1 : Lictor [37] Elite2 : lictor [37] FA1 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] FA2 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] FA3 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230]
HS1 : [FW] Barbed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [275] HS2 : [FW] Scythed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [235] ARMY TOTAL [2000]
(this below is no longer accurate as of the 10th december list edit)
Hi, so the list below will be going for deploy scramblers with the lictor and pyrovores (some pyros will outflank for 1 cp total, even if all 3 units go into deepstrike), engage on all fronts with the hormas, the dima and the scythed hierodule, and will finally go for psy ritual if opponent has no psycher or deny capability, thanks to the "katzenade move" -> swarmy moving to center of table, casting, then hive commanding back behind a building/ruin.
Barbed will (try to) hold a center table primary along with malanthrope, and with help of gaunts. Dima and scythed will go for brawling manoeuvres. I want onslaught going off, so it goes to the res barb relic "wearer" (hah hah nids with relics, so strange...). I don't have much to mess with backline units, but hey you can't have everything when you are filthy xenos scum, can you ?
What do you guys think ? To start, I am not happy with only one symbiostorm target, so I wonder if gene cult (to drop lots of acoloytes, and a pistolero in, and mess with enemy plans) or something else could replace the symbiostorm exocrine for once...
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Post by No One on Nov 24, 2020 1:40:23 GMT
Yeah, at basically 300 pts and 2 CP, the exo feels a bit eh.
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Post by hiveoverall on Nov 24, 2020 8:01:00 GMT
Yeah, at basically 300 pts and 2 CP, the exo feels a bit eh. Yeah so No one I edited the list to get a second exo in, and ditched the pyros and added a lictor. The list doesn’t score well though, I think I should try writing a version with gen cult instead of kronos patrol, and forgo shooting. At least compare both, and see how in theory each could hold its own against meta lists |
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Post by kwisatzhaderach on Nov 24, 2020 17:55:55 GMT
DETACHMENT : kraken Batallion HQ1 : BroodLord, Res Barb, onslaught [125] HQ2 : [FW] Malanthrope [150] HQ3 : Swarmlord, Catalyst, Psychic scream [270] Troup1 : 10 Hormagaunts [60] Troup2 : 10 termagants [100] Troup3 : 12 Termagants [60] Elite1 : Lictor [37] Elite2 : lictor [37] FA1 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] HS1 : [FW] Barbed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [275] HS2 : [FW] Scythed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [235] Total detachment : 1529DETACHMENT : Kronos patrolHQ1 : Neurothrope(1*95), [Kronos] sybiostorm[95] Troup1 : 3 Ripper Swarms [36] HS1 : Exocrine [170] HS2 : Exocrine [170] Total detachment :471ARMY TOTAL [2000] Your list is showing as 50 points over, I assume that the 100 points for 10 Gants is actually supposed to be 50. My recommendations: 1. Replace the unit of 12 Termagants with 10 Hormagaunts. 2. Move the Lictors to Kronos so that you have more options with the Deepest Shadow stratagem. 3. I'd recommend replacing the Barbed Hierodule with another Dimachaeron. If you don't have the model, then keep it as is. With the 40 points saved you can get another unit of Rippers. |
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Post by hiveoverall on Nov 26, 2020 16:46:26 GMT
DETACHMENT : kraken Batallion ARMY TOTAL [2000] Your list is showing as 50 points over, I assume that the 100 points for 10 Gants is actually supposed to be 50. My recommendations: 1. Replace the unit of 12 Termagants with 10 Hormagaunts. 2. Move the Lictors to Kronos so that you have more options with the Deepest Shadow stratagem. 3. I'd recommend replacing the Barbed Hierodule with another Dimachaeron. If you don't have the model, then keep it as is. With the 40 points saved you can get another unit of Rippers. Thanks for the feedback guys, I will go on to an entirely different concept until indeed I get my second Dima. It will be a weird concept, with 2 walkrants.
I will play it sunday and will provide feedback in this thread. It will be a board control list, geard ywoards resistance to damage as opposed to offensive output. I will post it then, as I don't think it is a good idea to post such a weird concept pre battle. It will make sens post battle though (for better or worst lol).
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 10, 2020 10:54:56 GMT
OK So I lost 68 to 60 against Ad Mech last Saturday. I ran a list with one dima, 2 scythed dules, swarmlord, neuro, malanthrope, maleceptor, 2*30 hormagaunts and 1*19 termas, 2 lictors and 3 units of 1 pyros. He had first turn and downed one dule despite the -1 to hit and -1 strengh on incoming fire, along with a few other things. His horsemen blocked the other dule, but I postioned well was able to score quite a lot in my furst turns. Problem was his firepower shrunk my army too fast, and by the end of his turn 3, I didn't have enough to score the last ten points which could have won me the game. I did 30 points in primary alone at the beginning of turn 3, and the end of turn 3 I made 15 from psy ritual, 10 from scramblers but only 5 from engage on all fronts. I did not score a single point after that because I didn't kill enough of his units (the Skorpius -the tanks which have indirect fire- for instance), so I didn't reduce his firpeower enough. The game is so lethal now that either you have 180 gaunts and you can really tank, or you start running too low on units and you can't get enough objectives and table quarters and so on. His list was full mars, and basically consisted of Cawl, 3 Skorpius, 2 units of horsemen, 3 units of troops each with the sniper team in it, another buff HQ, 2 FW drills with their 5 fusion guns, each carrying a unit of electro priests, a unit of swooping hawks/dudes (hah hah GW copying/porting their own concept from eldar to ad mech), 7 rustalkers, and that pretty much was it. It was a very nice game, with fun stuff happening, namely a drill charging the dima to finish its last 3 wounds, failing, the dima striking back on its last wound bracket and dealing it 14 wounds (just enough !). This insane sequence started out with 5 out of 6 attacks hitting without BEFORE the reroll (I needed 5+, insane !) and 4 got through the drill's ceramic plating tougness 8. The onlu reroll I got from the strat failed to connect. He saved one, but the dima got 3 wounds through, inflicting the 14 damage for the kill ! I was lucky both units of electro prests failed their charge on his second turn, but his second turn enabled him to kill my surviving dule, and kill enough gaunts that I knew I was not going to win that game. Barbed dules with their 2+ would have survived much longer, as only the meltas from the drills bypassed the 2+.
He was lucky on his skprpius which launched 5 s7 missiles (it is d6 missibles) AND 7 or 8 s6 (it is 3d3) each per turn... These things ain't right for only 150 pts, not with cawl and his rerolls...
Anyway the result was close, and the dima shined so hard (on my first turn it took out 7 rustalkers, 6 in CC, the last with morale! So my list for the rematch this sunday is the one in the first post (which I edited), with 5 big FW bugs. Not much to grab objectives, a very low model count. What do you guys think ? Should I drop the scythed dule ? I really want to try the barbed this time, because the guns can really make a difference. The walkrant is there because I want to try having all the 5 psychic powers, and its OK with the res barb on it. But OC, I am not 100% sold on him, because a walkrant is expensive AF for what it does in the shooting and assault phase.
I hope that out of the 3 dimas, one can at least get to a juicy target such as a skorpius tank, but hey we will see. I think I don't have enough staying power to score through the 4 turns (by the 5th turn I will be probablty tabled whatever I bring unless its a gaunt carpet), if anyone can help me figure out how to score through the 4 turns, I would be thrilled !
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Post by zedan on Dec 10, 2020 15:06:11 GMT
OK So I lost 68 to 60 against Ad Mech last Saturday. I ran a list with one dima, 2 scythed dules, swarmlord, neuro, malanthrope, maleceptor, 2*30 hormagaunts and 1*19 termas, 2 lictors and 3 units of 1 pyros. He had first turn and downed one dule despite the -1 to hit and -1 strengh on incoming fire, along with a few other things. His horsemen blocked the other dule, but I postioned well was able to score quite a lot in my furst turns. Problem was his firepower shrunk my army too fast, and by the end of his turn 3, I didn't have enough to score the last ten points which could have won me the game. I did 30 points in primary alone at the beginning of turn 3, and the end of turn 3 I made 15 from psy ritual, 10 from scramblers but only 5 from engage on all fronts. I did not score a single point after that because I didn't kill enough of his units (the Skorpius -the tanks which have indirect fire- for instance), so I didn't reduce his firpeower enough. The game is so lethal now that either you have 180 gaunts and you can really tank, or you start running too low on units and you can't get enough objectives and table quarters and so on. His list was full mars, and basically consisted of Cawl, 3 Skorpius, 2 units of horsemen, 3 units of troops each with the sniper team in it, another buff HQ, 2 FW drills with their 5 fusion guns, each carrying a unit of electro priests, a unit of swooping hawks/dudes (hah hah GW copying/porting their own concept from eldar to ad mech), 7 rustalkers, and that pretty much was it. It was a very nice game, with fun stuff happening, namely a drill charging the dima to finish its last 3 wounds, failing, the dima striking back on its last wound bracket and dealing it 14 wounds (just enough !). This insane sequence started out with 5 out of 6 attacks hitting without BEFORE the reroll (I needed 5+, insane !) and 4 got through the drill's ceramic plating tougness 8. The onlu reroll I got from the strat failed to connect. He saved one, but the dima got 3 wounds through, inflicting the 14 damage for the kill ! I was lucky both units of electro prests failed their charge on his second turn, but his second turn enabled him to kill my surviving dule, and kill enough gaunts that I knew I was not going to win that game. Barbed dules with their 2+ would have survived much longer, as only the meltas from the drills bypassed the 2+.
He was lucky on his skprpius which launched 5 s7 missiles (it is d6 missibles) AND 7 or 8 s6 (it is 3d3) each per turn... These things ain't right for only 150 pts, not with cawl and his rerolls...
Anyway the result was close, and the dima shined so hard (on my first turn it took out 7 rustalkers, 6 in CC, the last with morale! So my list for the rematch this sunday is the one in the first post (which I edited), with 5 big FW bugs. Not much to grab objectives, a very low model count. What do you guys think ? Should I drop the scythed dule ? I really want to try the barbed this time, because the guns can really make a difference. The walkrant is there because I want to try having all the 5 psychic powers, and its OK with the res barb on it. But OC, I am not 100% sold on him, because a walkrant is expensive AF for what it does in the shooting and assault phase.
I hope that out of the 3 dimas, one can at least get to a juicy target such as a skorpius tank, but hey we will see. I think I don't have enough staying power to score through the 4 turns (by the 5th turn I will be probablty tabled whatever I bring unless its a gaunt carpet), if anyone can help me figure out how to score through the 4 turns, I would be thrilled !
We seem to be zeroing in on similar lists. Haha. I actually really liked the barbed dule in test games. He hits just hard enough in shooting and melee he is annoying and is probably our tankiest bug at this point with 2+/5++ and t8. (Barring a tyrant sticking 4++). For me the scythed dule is just a worse dimacheron. It doesn't have leaper killer and it doesn't have full reroll hits and it doesn't have digestion spine. Therefore its paying a whole lot of points for that flamer and t8 which id rather pay 2cp to make the barb 3dmg. The tyrant is interesting as its sort of another dima but with psychic. I went with the zoanthrope route so we have our heads going same direction. Let me know how your games go! |
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 10, 2020 20:53:31 GMT
Yeah zedan you make it sound like I should replace the scythed by a barbed hierodule. I like the idea, because the pair can down s9mething turn1, whereas just one will most probably not down any 10 or more wound vehicle by itself bar lucky rolls. I guess I could drop the termagaunts and do the swap, and see what I can then do with 10 extra points
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Post by zedan on Dec 10, 2020 21:13:37 GMT
Yeah zedan you make it sound like I should replace the scythed by a barbed hierodule. I like the idea, because the pair can down s9mething turn1, whereas just one will most probably not down any 10 or more wound vehicle by itself bar lucky rolls. I guess I could drop the termagaunts and do the swap, and see what I can then do with 10 extra points I wasn't suggesting 2 but that sounds fun and solid as well lol I dont own 2 barbed just 1 of each so I was not writing lists for 2. But in combo they could definitely pick on something beefier together! |
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 10, 2020 22:06:48 GMT
I also just own one of each, I’ll just proxy the scythed for a barbed.
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 13, 2020 22:48:19 GMT
So I ended up winning that game, tabling his ad mech on my turn 3 (I don’t often get to kill Caw hah hah that was nice I must say). I obviously need more tests but I think triple Dima is a solid build.
Despite auto losing vs hordes I think (unless someone comes up with a great idea). I went for only one barbed in the end, and I took an exocrine with it. They both did a lot of work (kronos patrol both of them so as to have two targets for symbio storm). This is the list I finally took.
DETACHMENT : kraken Batallion
HQ1 : Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Rending Claws, 2 Brain-L devourers, Resonance Barb, Onslaught, Catalyst [175]
HQ3 : Swarmlord, [Kraken] Synaptic Lure, psy scream [270]
Troup1 : 3 Ripper Swarms) [36]
Troup2 : 20;termagants [100]
Troup3 : 17 Termagants [85]
Elite1 : Lictor [37]
Elite2 : pyro [28]
FA1 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230]
FA2 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230]
FA3 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230]
Total kraken bataillon 1421 pts
Kronos patrol
Neuro 95
Rippers 36
HS1 : [FW] Barbed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [275]
HS2 : Exocrine, Symbiotic Skin [170]
Total kronos patrol 576
ARMY TOTAL [1997]
Me and my opponent made a few strategic mistakes but I basically won partly because my dice rolls were much better. My opponent won the choose first turn roll, and chose to go second (despite having two drills both filled with electropriests, I can’t seem to convince him that was a bad move). So I butchered a skorpius tank Right there with the exocrine turn 1, two dimas crunched a horsemen unit each, feeding and gaining a 5+++ (the dice curse for much opponent started with those 2 streng tests). I spread on the map and did scramblers in my zone with pyro, started the count f9r bring it down with the skorpius tank, and got 2 for engage an all fronts.
The rest tomorrow
It is a lot trickier to play than I thought, you need to do damage but you can’t expose the dimas too much, not if they don’t have that 5+++ at least.
It is a lot of fun playing these overgrown overeating lictors, because of the pressure it puts (reminded me of the kraken stealer domination in 8th). Going for strengh 3 or 4 targets to try and get the 5+++ really works, you just need to blast at least one AT unit along with it to get an edge.
You then overrun back to (relative) safety your most forwarded positioned Dima and hope only one of them dies.
i will face necrons next sunday, I will probably stick to triple dima, but I am not sold on the kronos patrol. Necrons seem like a very bad match up because I don’t think nids have the punch (behemoth with hunger psychic power could help drop silver tide but I am not very interested in playing that ATM) it takes. I will read their new codex carefully this week.
any input on the list would be welcome (in a TAC sense, not tailored against Necron sense)
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Post by purestrain on Dec 22, 2020 21:43:29 GMT
So I ended up winning that game, tabling his ad mech on my turn 3 (I don’t often get to kill Caw hah hah that was nice I must say). I obviously need more tests but I think triple Dima is a solid build. Despite auto losing vs hordes I think (unless someone comes up with a great idea). I went for only one barbed in the end, and I took an exocrine with it. They both did a lot of work (kronos patrol both of them so as to have two targets for symbio storm). This is the list I finally took. DETACHMENT : kraken Batallion HQ1 : Hive Tyrant, Monstrous Rending Claws, 2 Brain-L devourers, Resonance Barb, Onslaught, Catalyst [175] HQ3 : Swarmlord, [Kraken] Synaptic Lure, psy scream [270] Troup1 : 3 Ripper Swarms) [36] Troup2 : 20;termagants [100] Troup3 : 17 Termagants [85] Elite1 : Lictor [37] Elite2 : pyro [28] FA1 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] FA2 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] FA3 : [FW] Dimachaeron [230] Total kraken bataillon 1421 pts Kronos patrol Neuro 95 Rippers 36 HS1 : [FW] Barbed Hierodule, Symbiotic Skin [275] HS2 : Exocrine, Symbiotic Skin [170] Total kronos patrol 576 ARMY TOTAL [1997] Me and my opponent made a few strategic mistakes but I basically won partly because my dice rolls were much better. My opponent won the choose first turn roll, and chose to go second (despite having two drills both filled with electropriests, I can’t seem to convince him that was a bad move). So I butchered a skorpius tank Right there with the exocrine turn 1, two dimas crunched a horsemen unit each, feeding and gaining a 5+++ (the dice curse for much opponent started with those 2 streng tests). I spread on the map and did scramblers in my zone with pyro, started the count f9r bring it down with the skorpius tank, and got 2 for engage an all fronts. The rest tomorrow It is a lot trickier to play than I thought, you need to do damage but you can’t expose the dimas too much, not if they don’t have that 5+++ at least. It is a lot of fun playing these overgrown overeating lictors, because of the pressure it puts (reminded me of the kraken stealer domination in 8th). Going for strengh 3 or 4 targets to try and get the 5+++ really works, you just need to blast at least one AT unit along with it to get an edge. You then overrun back to (relative) safety your most forwarded positioned Dima and hope only one of them dies. i will face necrons next sunday, I will probably stick to triple dima, but I am not sold on the kronos patrol. Necrons seem like a very bad match up because I don’t think nids have the punch (behemoth with hunger psychic power could help drop silver tide but I am not very interested in playing that ATM) it takes. I will read their new codex carefully this week. any input on the list would be welcome (in a TAC sense, not tailored against Necron sense) Exocrine annihilate squads of immortals and that barbed will stop their destroyers before they can wreak havoc. |
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 23, 2020 8:24:40 GMT
Yep I crushed that necron, but despite winning by a landslide i did not manage to down a single warrior squad. The "I will be back" rule is so cool and well balanced (Necron players do need to dedicate a lot of resources to boost the reanimation protocols) I wish we tyranids had (or should I say will get) that sort of cool balanced stuff. Exocrine hurt that annhilation barge pretty well, barbed finished it. After that was he just didn't have enough anti tank to deal with the dimachaerons (he had two canoptek canon toting tall things but they just were not enough). My list was kraken swarmlord, neuro, 3*3 rippers, 1 maleceptor (was useless in this match up because of strengh 10 shots), 3 dimas, then Kronos neuro, barbed, exocrine, 1*rippers, 2 lictors Necron units are just so bad in melee, they really need that new dude with the damage 2 gauss gun who allows a core unit within 9' to fall back and shoot + charge. They seem to be just as hard to play in a competitive setting as all the other xenos in 9th. I really love what they did with the necron codex, though they probably overdid it a little, so many rules !!!
In 4 days I will be up against custodes, I still don't know what I want to try out for that game
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 4, 2021 2:56:50 GMT
Necron competitive lists feature copious amounts of Skorpekh Destroyers, not so much silverside which is a gate keeper IMO. I'm personally playing double wraiths double C'tans and getting about 60% of the way there - the C'tans have been an absolute beast with how much work they get done over a few turns, but require an opponent that doesn't quite know how to deal with them (and no, killing them outright tends not to be the answer, as its really hard to make that arrangement).
Necrons actually have way better melee than shooting- their gun options are absolutely atrocious, being filled primarily with 1D guns and having to pay a large bloc fee to take them in enough volume to get any work done. I've been a proponent since mid 8th that +1A/S/ap/D are easy ways to make something not quite there into a real reckoning force, and the plethora of those available to SM kind of prove it, but Necron Warriors in specific are just shocking when the whole unit is suddenly going 2A S5 -1ap; it can tear down unsuspecting marines, doubly so when paired with the Silent King reroll wounds in melee.
Anyway, moving onto your list itself - you are actually lacking in sustainable board control/anti-horde I think? Board control can be jury rigged with lictors and Rippers just holding weird covered corners, although objectives are a bit more awkward. Since you're winning or crushing hard though I'm going to guess objectives haven't been a problem for you.
For anti-horde, bringing another Scythed instead of a Barbed might be a call. Your whole list is already very aggressive, so being able to push almost everything up the table at once with ALL of it being so hard to kill may be the play of the game. The Scythed also brings up wave 2, can be a emergency 2D damage autohitter, and having a pair basically fries all horde based army concepts (2 + guns or charge will definitely wipe a Necron 20 man unit i think? And are extremely hard to deal with thereafter)
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