2000 pts Kraken/Kronos list looking for advice.

[gribblybaby]

Battalion - Kraken (1399)

Battalion No CP cost thanks to Warlord.

HQ: 449

Prime (Warlord) (Death spitter, Boneswords) (84)

Swarmlord (Synaptic Lure, Catalyst) (270) (Second)

Neurothrope (Resonance Barb) (Onslaught) (95) (Fourth)

Troops: 451

Warrior x9 (3x Venom Cannon, Lashwhips and Boneswords, 6x deathspitter) (Enhanced Resistance) (297)

Termagaunts x10 (50)

Termagaunts x10 (50)

Termagaunts x10 (x1 Devourer) (54)

Elites: 269

Zoanthropes x5 (first) (235)

Lictor (34)

Fast Attack: 230

Dimachaeron (230)

——————————————

Patrol (-2 CP) Kronos (601)

Progeny of the Hive (-1 CP)

HQ: 95

Neurothrope (Symbiostorm) (95) (Third)

Troops: 36

Ripper swarm x3 (36)

Elites: 300

Hiveguard x6 (Impaler Cannon) (300)

Heavy Support: 170

Exocrine x1 (170) (Dermic Symbiosis)

——————————

so that’s the list, the Kronos detachment is I’m assuming pretty self explanatory it’s our two best gun platforms along with their best spell (and synapse) and a ripper squad cause why not. Line breaker or stealing an objective either is possible. 

the kraken detachment, we’ve got termagaunts for metabolic boosting into enemy territory to block movement. Screening, deploying first turn scramblers. That sort of thing. 

the warriors as a mid board lynchpin and sticky fire base with catalyst. Along with the Zoans for more mid board sticky units with some decent damage. 

the Swarmlord I plan to play cagey with, he’s there to get the Dima into T1 charge territory. 

lictor is again for things like line breaker and scramblers. 

now my theory with Dima is the best way to use it might be as a hit and run unit with overrun. If you can get it into a unit 3 inches clear of any opposing units (which might be possible with the support of hive guard and smites) then with a kraken advance it could reliably run 17 inches away after a charge, which could get it into great cover (specially since it can go over terrain) and out of enemy’s immediate counter charge range. 

Secondaries:

Engage on all front or line breaker

Deploy scramblers or repair teleport homer

i find picking a third hard but think these 2 should be reliable. 

[xj85]

This list looks a lot like the list I was running yesterday (see below) and it worked great, I also used the same secondaries which are almost Always full achieved, apart from the 3rd.

The Dimachaeron charged a knight and did 23!!! damage to it with the re-roll to wound strategem. 

I like your armylist and tactics but I have a few suggestions:

- I would drop the Prime and drop the ranged options for the Warriors. They are too expensive and dont provide the damage output to justify the points. I would run them with rending claws/scything talons and adrenal glands. They are not to kill but to hold a mid-field objective and draw fire (and then use to -1D strat)

- With the additional points I would take an addtional exocrine.

- I would change from Kraken to Leviathan. The warriors/zoanthropes/gaunts are a lot more durable with the 6+++ against D3-weapons, and I find Tyranids to be fast enough already with the SL-slingshot.

My list I tried yesterday.

Leviathan battalion

Swarmlord

Neurothrope, Warlord

10x Hormagaunts

10x Hormagaunts

3x Rippers

9x Warriors: Bone Swords, Scything Talons & Adrenal Glands, Enhanced Resistance

5x Zoanthrope

1x Lictor

1x Lictor

Dimachaeron

Kronos Battalion

Neurothrope

3x Ripper

5x Hive Guard

1x Excorine, Dermic Symbiosis

1x Excorine

[gribblybaby]

Nov 13, 2020 8:22:05 GMT xj85 said:

This list looks a lot like the list I was running yesterday (see below) and it worked great, I also used the same secondaries which are almost Always full achieved, apart from the 3rd.

The Dimachaeron charged a knight and did 23!!! damage to it with the re-roll to wound strategem. 

I like your armylist and tactics but I have a few suggestions:

- I would drop the Prime and drop the ranged options for the Warriors. They are too expensive and dont provide the damage output to justify the points. I would run them with rending claws/scything talons and adrenal glands. They are not to kill but to hold a mid-field objective and draw fire (and then use to -1D strat)

- With the additional points I would take an addtional exocrine.

- I would change from Kraken to Leviathan. The warriors/zoanthropes/gaunts are a lot more durable with the 6+++ against D3-weapons, and I find Tyranids to be fast enough already with the SL-slingshot.

My list I tried yesterday.

Leviathan battalion

Swarmlord

Neurothrope, Warlord

10x Hormagaunts

10x Hormagaunts

3x Rippers

9x Warriors: Bone Swords, Scything Talons & Adrenal Glands, Enhanced Resistance

5x Zoanthrope

1x Lictor

1x Lictor

Dimachaeron

Kronos Battalion

Neurothrope

3x Ripper

5x Hive Guard

1x Excorine, Dermic Symbiosis

1x Excorine

Amazing that’s good news. 

I am aware if anything was getting altered it would probably be the warriors. Although I’d like to try them kitted out first as I like the idea of them gunning things down. 

I have though about dropping them and the prime all together for a Trygon, Broodlord and some Hormagaunts so we’ll see. 

how did the Swarmlord perform? 

[xj85]

I think the Swarmlord is one of the best Tyranids units. He is very versatile as he is a beat stick, can launch other units and is a good psyker. I usually keep him hidden till turn 3 but do use his hive Commander ability and cast powers, from turn 3 onwards launch him at a juicy target.

Yesterday he destroyed a defiler and some greater possessed. I do always use the reroll to wound strategem.

[zimko]

Nov 13, 2020 3:21:17 GMT gribblybaby said:

now my theory with Dima is the best way to use it might be as a hit and run unit with overrun. If you can get it into a unit 3 inches clear of any opposing units (which might be possible with the support of hive guard and smites) then with a kraken advance it could reliably run 17 inches away after a charge, which could get it into great cover (specially since it can go over terrain) and out of enemy’s immediate counter charge range. 

I'm not sure you'll find much cover for the Dima unless your local terrain is using massive walls that completely block LOS. The Dima has 18 wounds, so it can not benefit from the Obscuring rule. Which means anything can shoot it as long as they can see any part of the model, no matter what terrain they are shooting through. Similarly, Dense cover also does not apply to the Dima.

So the only advantage for hit and running like this is to avoid a melee threat. Shooting-wise you probably wont be able to avoid reprisal. In light of this, you probably just want to engage as much as possible instead of trying to hit and run.

[benlisted]

Nov 13, 2020 15:26:27 GMT zimko said:

Nov 13, 2020 3:21:17 GMT gribblybaby said:

now my theory with Dima is the best way to use it might be as a hit and run unit with overrun. If you can get it into a unit 3 inches clear of any opposing units (which might be possible with the support of hive guard and smites) then with a kraken advance it could reliably run 17 inches away after a charge, which could get it into great cover (specially since it can go over terrain) and out of enemy’s immediate counter charge range. 

I'm not sure you'll find much cover for the Dima unless your local terrain is using massive walls that completely block LOS. The Dima has 18 wounds, so it can not benefit from the Obscuring rule. Which means anything can shoot it as long as they can see any part of the model, no matter what terrain they are shooting through. Similarly, Dense cover also does not apply to the Dima.

So the only advantage for hit and running like this is to avoid a melee threat. Shooting-wise you probably wont be able to avoid reprisal. In light of this, you probably just want to engage as much as possible instead of trying to hit and run.

100% this, overrun is strong on a flyrant which can more easily hide (though the wings make it tricky). But having playtested Nidzilla myself, an army with decent shooting is always going to be able to see them on most maps due to 18w - it's a bigger drawback than it seems.

Leading on from this, my takeaway from running 2 dimas and 3 hierodules was that if you lose first turn 1-2 are going to die because you cannot hide them (my chaos knight opponent rolled trash on his thermal cannons and still killed 1 dima t1 - and this was with a Malanthrope which you lack). So, I am a bit jittery about just running one because a big portion of your strategy is based on it and if it dies, you have nothing really to use Swarmy on. I personally am feeling that I would not want to take just one of the big FW gribblies unless I was going to reserve it - I'd want 2-3 so you can still make use of them even if one dies t1.

[gribblybaby]

Nov 13, 2020 15:26:27 GMT zimko said:

Nov 13, 2020 3:21:17 GMT gribblybaby said:

now my theory with Dima is the best way to use it might be as a hit and run unit with overrun. If you can get it into a unit 3 inches clear of any opposing units (which might be possible with the support of hive guard and smites) then with a kraken advance it could reliably run 17 inches away after a charge, which could get it into great cover (specially since it can go over terrain) and out of enemy’s immediate counter charge range. 

I'm not sure you'll find much cover for the Dima unless your local terrain is using massive walls that completely block LOS. The Dima has 18 wounds, so it can not benefit from the Obscuring rule. Which means anything can shoot it as long as they can see any part of the model, no matter what terrain they are shooting through. Similarly, Dense cover also does not apply to the Dima.

So the only advantage for hit and running like this is to avoid a melee threat. Shooting-wise you probably wont be able to avoid reprisal. In light of this, you probably just want to engage as much as possible instead of trying to hit and run.

I mean, leaving melta and rapid fire range would still be valuable. 

but if you can’t get that going savage distraction is probably a good call 

[gribblybaby]

Nov 13, 2020 16:51:35 GMT benlisted said:

Nov 13, 2020 15:26:27 GMT zimko said:

I'm not sure you'll find much cover for the Dima unless your local terrain is using massive walls that completely block LOS. The Dima has 18 wounds, so it can not benefit from the Obscuring rule. Which means anything can shoot it as long as they can see any part of the model, no matter what terrain they are shooting through. Similarly, Dense cover also does not apply to the Dima.

So the only advantage for hit and running like this is to avoid a melee threat. Shooting-wise you probably wont be able to avoid reprisal. In light of this, you probably just want to engage as much as possible instead of trying to hit and run.

100% this, overrun is strong on a flyrant which can more easily hide (though the wings make it tricky). But having playtested Nidzilla myself, an army with decent shooting is always going to be able to see them on most maps due to 18w - it's a bigger drawback than it seems.

Leading on from this, my takeaway from running 2 dimas and 3 hierodules was that if you lose first turn 1-2 are going to die because you cannot hide them (my chaos knight opponent rolled trash on his thermal cannons and still killed 1 dima t1 - and this was with a Malanthrope which you lack). So, I am a bit jittery about just running one because a big portion of your strategy is based on it and if it dies, you have nothing really to use Swarmy on. I personally am feeling that I would not want to take just one of the big FW gribblies unless I was going to reserve it - I'd want 2-3 so you can still make use of them even if one dies t1.

I’d definitely reserve if I didn’t get T1 

[benlisted]

Nov 13, 2020 22:25:19 GMT gribblybaby said:

Nov 13, 2020 16:51:35 GMT benlisted said:

100% this, overrun is strong on a flyrant which can more easily hide (though the wings make it tricky). But having playtested Nidzilla myself, an army with decent shooting is always going to be able to see them on most maps due to 18w - it's a bigger drawback than it seems.

Leading on from this, my takeaway from running 2 dimas and 3 hierodules was that if you lose first turn 1-2 are going to die because you cannot hide them (my chaos knight opponent rolled trash on his thermal cannons and still killed 1 dima t1 - and this was with a Malanthrope which you lack). So, I am a bit jittery about just running one because a big portion of your strategy is based on it and if it dies, you have nothing really to use Swarmy on. I personally am feeling that I would not want to take just one of the big FW gribblies unless I was going to reserve it - I'd want 2-3 so you can still make use of them even if one dies t1.

I’d definitely reserve if I didn’t get T1 

Problem is that because you can't hive commander after coming on from reserves and you can't that easily boost his odds to charge - you can spend CP to add D6s to drop to charge but its far from guaranteed. So you risk being in the same position (coming on from reserve and failing the charge then immediately being killed) just several CP down for the trouble.

[cmob208]

You also pick reserves before you know who has T1.

[hiveoverall]

Shooting warriors with prime is only worth the points as kronos, with symbiostorm to cast on them (and of course taking an exocrine instead of the shooting option for warriors, is then more appealing)

[gribblybaby]

Nov 13, 2020 23:57:09 GMT benlisted said:

Nov 13, 2020 22:25:19 GMT gribblybaby said:

I’d definitely reserve if I didn’t get T1 

Problem is that because you can't hive commander after coming on from reserves and you can't that easily boost his odds to charge - you can spend CP to add D6s to drop to charge but its far from guaranteed. So you risk being in the same position (coming on from reserve and failing the charge then immediately being killed) just several CP down for the trouble.

There is always synaptic Lure and hunters drive or hive instinct. Roll 3 drop the lowest and rerolling isn’t bad.

Nov 14, 2020 0:42:53 GMT @cmob208 said:

You also pick reserves before you know who has T1.

Oh true, well, I think the thing to do would be reserve based on what guns they’ve got fielded. For instance against Harleyquins or Orks or space wolves I wouldn’t reserve but against something like Guard I would.

Nov 14, 2020 10:01:57 GMT hiveoverall said:

Shooting warriors with prime is only worth the points as kronos, with symbiostorm to cast on them (and of course taking an exocrine instead of the shooting option for warriors, is then more appealing)

Exocrine wouldn’t fight on the point though

Also, if the warriors manage to kill a single unit in shooting (which they should) then they can trigger hunters drive, which is the most reliable way to make long charges with swarmy or the Dima.

[No One]

If your gameplan is 'if they can shoot me, come in delayed, screened and with a failable charge', just take super-flyrant and not have to worry about any of those things (decent terrain permitting).

[gribblybaby]

Nov 14, 2020 14:17:27 GMT No One said:

If your gameplan is 'if they can shoot me, come in delayed, screened and with a failable charge', just take super-flyrant and not have to worry about any of those things (decent terrain permitting).

That would only be the plan for shooting heavy armies

it would be better against shooting heavy but I think It’d be worse against melee heavy certainly something to think about though I could move the zoans and the Neuro to kronos in order to make room for him in kraken