Iterating on Stormcoil's List with Dimachaerons

[kwisatzhaderach]

Hi all.

So I'm sure that most of you have followed Stormcoil's success with his unique take on Tyranids. 
After the release of the Forgeworld book, I've been taking a look at the Dimachaerons in particular. They seem to have so many good things going for them and with 9th being how it is, I thought they would be worth testing. 

For reference, you can see Stormcoil's most recent list here: www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/jbdgkx/tyranids_vs_new_codex_white_scars_9th_edition/

Here's what I've done:
-Removed a Mawloc
-Removed the Hive Guard (a controversial exclusion but I'll explain why)
-Removed the unit of termagants

So, what do we gain from this?
2 Dimachaerons. 

Personally I prefer Dimas due to the invulnerable save, but they could be easily replaced in this list with Scythed Hierodules if you so choose.

This list features a lot of powerful threats that should hopefully overload an opponent's threat priority. In addition, the list is very fast moving in general. The Kronos patrol is the Kronos patrol, not much more to say there.

Why I removed the Hive Guard: personally I feel like they get hard countered by fliers, and they are often not that strong vs W3 models in general. Meanwhile, Dimas can do a lot of damage, and they can move super fast. Not to mention, they can regain wounds rather easily with their adaptive physiology. 

The strategy for the list is similar to Stormcoil's - blocking opponents in and preventing them from scoring, while you go around scoring your own points. 
I think that Dimas are perfect for this style of list due to their threat range and power. 

I hope to test out the list this weekend and next week. 


+++ Tyranids Monster Mash 2000 9th Test (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [76 PL, 10CP, 1,990pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) ++

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ +

Broodlord: Power: Synaptic Lure, Resonance Barb

Neurothrope: Power: Psychic Scream, Warlord

+ Troops +

Hormagaunts: 10x Hormagaunt

Hormagaunts: 10x Hormagaunt

Hormagaunts: 10x Hormagaunt

+ Elites +

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Zoanthropes: Power: The Horror, 5x Zoanthrope

Zoanthropes: Power: Onslaught, 5x Zoanthrope

+ Fast Attack +

Dimachaeron (Adaptive Physiology - Accelerated Digestion)

Dimachaeron (Adaptive Physiology - Accelerated Digestion)

+ Heavy Support +

Mawloc: Prehensile Pincer Tail

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Tyranids) ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Neurothrope

+ Troops +

Ripper Swarms: 3x Ripper Swarm

+ Elites +

Lictor: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Heavy Support +

Exocrine

Exocrine

[hiveoverall]

Love the list and the concept behind it, but I would go for only one dimachaeron and fill the 3 kraken horma units up. I would also drop the mawloc and take a second broodlord. The exocrine starting on the board would get a 5++, the other exo outflanks.

But I would mind trying the list as is, except I only have one dima

[kwisatzhaderach]

Nov 4, 2020 10:15:39 GMT hiveoverall said:

Love the list and the concept behind it, but I would go for only one dimachaeron and fill the 3 kraken horma units up. I would also drop the mawloc and take a second broodlord. The exocrine starting on the board would get a 5++, the other exo outflanks.

But I would mind trying the list as is, except I only have one dima

Hi Hiveoverall,

After some discussion it definitely seems like the Mawloc will be dropped and I am going to test out a singular Exocrine, and re-add the Hive Guard.

I don't have any Dimachaerons but thanks to Vassal and TTS that isn't so much of an issue lol...need to figure out how the list works before I go blowing $250+ on resin 

[hiveoverall]

Why are hive guard so important? In what match up do they shine so much ? Before -1 to hit Terrain ok they were autoinclude. But now... they are still good but you don’t really need them so much as before 

[beetlejuice]

Nov 4, 2020 18:27:58 GMT hiveoverall said:

Why are hive guard so important? In what match up do they shine so much ? Before -1 to hit Terrain ok they were autoinclude. But now... they are still good but you don’t really need them so much as before 

Have you read stormcoils latest RTT reports? There was no dense cover on any table and in one game they basically killed the opponent’s whole army. I think they won all his games by eliminating enemy’s scoring units and then just playing the mission with the rest of his list.

[kazetanade]

Nov 5, 2020 5:19:04 GMT beetlejuice said:

Nov 4, 2020 18:27:58 GMT hiveoverall said:

Why are hive guard so important? In what match up do they shine so much ? Before -1 to hit Terrain ok they were autoinclude. But now... they are still good but you don’t really need them so much as before 

Have you read stormcoils latest RTT reports? There was no dense cover on any table and in one game they basically killed the opponent’s whole army. I think they won all his games by eliminating enemy’s scoring units and then just playing the mission with the rest of his list.

This is location specific. In my meta, HG are useless because they have nothing to hide behind and if they decide to bring a big shooting army, my HG do not exist. This is often the first unit to take half of the enemy's fire completely free of charge, while their melee will threaten to wipe anything you're throwing up onto objectives (none of this "oh they shoot the HG the other core army parts are safe" nonsense). There is also the fact that many factions seems to have ignore ap-1 and ap-2, or have -1 to hits in place. Once HG become 4+ to hit, ap0, only 8 or less shots, or any combination of this, then you see them become really big paperweights that just do not get anything done. When you double fire HG into a unit of 9 Shining Spears and only 1 dies, you will be cursing why you have HG in that game. 

Also read his battle reports: He was killing 1W CSM and Cultists with his HG in his most recent RTT, which is the best use of the HG in today's meta (which is, killing out of sight ObSec), and read again how often the HG tend to fail him when he was forced to splitfire them into different units to handle the multiple sets of Obsec everywhere. The 300pts invested in them did not "make back" during these games other than the Knight game I suppose where they got 5 turns of uninterrupted shooting. IF I'm not mistaken, Stormcoil was saved by Warptime failing at key moments in both games. 

All that says that HG are NOT core to any list, but not that they're bad. If HG were 250pts the way they're supposed to be, they'd be the right points size and are near autotake in your games assuming there is LOS blocking terrain expected in the event. Definitely bring them if you like them, they're more than usable. 

On the list itself, I'm really keen on these Dimachaerons to see how they do. We've been needing tools to deal with multiwound murder units that are more consistent. Of course as melee units their issue is... they need to make the charge. So it'll really be a scene to see how to make them work, especially since they cant hide behind Obscurring anymore (which is the biggest nerf in the world IMO).  

[kwisatzhaderach]

Hi all.

As for this particular list, Hive Guard are better than another Exocrine mostly for decreasing the attractiveness of "Bring It Down".
Are Hive Guard amazing? No. But keep in mind, even in Stormcoil's list, they still actually ended up helping him win the game since they annihilated all of the opponent's ObSec.

I think, given the texture of this particular list, they can make sense for removing screens and taking care of threats to the Dimachaerons.

[angrypomeranian]

Tested this list on my Drukhari-friend - wiped him in 4 turns. Dimas are insane, got 1-shot on Urien Rakarth with maw-torax. Also kraken is super good on them.

[kwisatzhaderach]

Nov 6, 2020 6:15:10 GMT angrypomeranian said:

Tested this list on my Drukhari-friend - wiped him in 4 turns. Dimas are insane, got 1-shot on Urien Rakarth with maw-torax. Also kraken is super good on them.

Beating DE with Tyranids has always been difficult in my experience - so the fact that you won is a testament to your skill! (And I hope, the list as well)
Any suggestions for improving the list? Or anything you might change?

Also yeah vs Str3 enemies, Dimas are horrifying with the maw thorax. 66% chance to do D6 mortals is actually kind of insane lol

[angrypomeranian]

Dunno what to change...I didn't really understands what's the purpose of mawloc - it eats 2 cps and do mortal wounds 2 time, thats all?And with new coherency rule I realy felt lack of screen for zoanthropes.

[beetlejuice]

Nov 6, 2020 20:15:07 GMT angrypomeranian said:

Dunno what to change...I didn't really understands what's the purpose of mawloc - it eats 2 cps and do mortal wounds 2 time, thats all?And with new coherency rule I realy felt lack of screen for zoanthropes.

Read stormcoil’s battle reports. He uses 1-2 to great effect. Linebreaker, engage on all fronts, move blocking, contesting objectives held by a single model etc, really versatile unit

[brassangel]

Nov 5, 2020 11:00:59 GMT kazetanade said:

Nov 5, 2020 5:19:04 GMT beetlejuice said:

Have you read stormcoils latest RTT reports? There was no dense cover on any table and in one game they basically killed the opponent’s whole army. I think they won all his games by eliminating enemy’s scoring units and then just playing the mission with the rest of his list.

This is location specific. In my meta, HG are useless because they have nothing to hide behind and if they decide to bring a big shooting army, my HG do not exist. This is often the first unit to take half of the enemy's fire completely free of charge, while their melee will threaten to wipe anything you're throwing up onto objectives (none of this "oh they shoot the HG the other core army parts are safe" nonsense). There is also the fact that many factions seems to have ignore ap-1 and ap-2, or have -1 to hits in place. Once HG become 4+ to hit, ap0, only 8 or less shots, or any combination of this, then you see them become really big paperweights that just do not get anything done. When you double fire HG into a unit of 9 Shining Spears and only 1 dies, you will be cursing why you have HG in that game. 

Also read his battle reports: He was killing 1W CSM and Cultists with his HG in his most recent RTT, which is the best use of the HG in today's meta (which is, killing out of sight ObSec), and read again how often the HG tend to fail him when he was forced to splitfire them into different units to handle the multiple sets of Obsec everywhere. The 300pts invested in them did not "make back" during these games other than the Knight game I suppose where they got 5 turns of uninterrupted shooting. IF I'm not mistaken, Stormcoil was saved by Warptime failing at key moments in both games. 

All that says that HG are NOT core to any list, but not that they're bad. If HG were 250pts the way they're supposed to be, they'd be the right points size and are near autotake in your games assuming there is LOS blocking terrain expected in the event. Definitely bring them if you like them, they're more than usable. 

On the list itself, I'm really keen on these Dimachaerons to see how they do. We've been needing tools to deal with multiwound murder units that are more consistent. Of course as melee units their issue is... they need to make the charge. So it'll really be a scene to see how to make them work, especially since they cant hide behind Obscurring anymore (which is the biggest nerf in the world IMO).  

One predominant faction converts AP -1 to 0, and that's Salamanders. It's important to note that they DON'T ignore AP -1, they just modify it to 0. Otherwise it's just isolated units here and there with similar abilities. Most Marines players are on White Scars right now.

Furthermore, I wouldn't fire Hive Guard at Shining Spears. I'd only fire them at targets they are useful against.

Hive Guard have been reduced in usefulness (so far) in 9th, but it wasn't a nerf into unplayability. They simply went from broken to fair. Before someone chimes in with the, "but Tyranids need all the help they can get!", relying on one unit to do the work isn't good for the army, or the game. Our Codex will spread the love around considerably, just as Marines and Necrons now enjoy.

[N.I.B.]

Nov 4, 2020 18:17:14 GMT kwisatzhaderach said:

After some discussion it definitely seems like the Mawloc will be dropped and I am going to test out a singular Exocrine, and re-add the Hive Guard.

It looks really light on scoring troops, but let us know how you fare.

[kazetanade]

brassangel I'm aware that Custodes, Tyranids, and GSC get some form of ignore ap-1 and ap-2. I am not too sure about GK (have some feeling like they do but unsure), and just to be clear standard SM do not have it (notably Sallies have ap-1 to 0 like you said, but that's about it).

On the matter of Shining Spears, we have no gun that's good to go into them - HG are one of our better options altogether, leaving melee and smites as the only other real option. In that moment, I am saying that you would be cursing investing in 300pts of Hive Guard in addition (not in replacement) of your Exocrenes, since you need alternative threat vectors.

Otherwise I'm mostly in agreement, HG are still fine, not as strong (read: uncontested) as before, not the worst choice in the game.

[N.I.B.]

Nov 3, 2020 16:34:36 GMT kwisatzhaderach said:

Here's what I've done:

Took your modified list for a spin tonight, big win against Ultramarines in mission 'Battle Lines', him going first and blowing up one Dimachaeron with 2 buffed units of Eradicators. He had somewhat of a castle with Bobby G, Tigerius, the new chief apothecary, deepstriking terminators and lots of primaris units.
Zoanthropes and Hormagaunts were great in Kraken turn 1, advancing onto midfield objectives and staying there for the game. My surviving Dima delivered the goods, wrecking in cc and coming back twice from lowest bracket thanks to Accelerated Digestion, ending the game parked on the valuable enemy home objective. I'm ordering another.