2k Kronos tournament

[zimko]

Battalion Kronos
HQ
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb 95
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught 270
Troops
- 20 Genestealers 300
- 10 Hormagaunts 60
- 10 Hormagaunts 60
- 9 Warriors: Enhanced Resistance, 9 RendingClaws/Scything Talons (I had a spare 18 pts and they were already modeled this way. 6 with swords would be better but it's minor) 207
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard 300
- Lictor 37
- Lictor 37
- 3 Venomthropes 99
Heavy Supports
- Exocrine 170
- Exocrine 170
-Tyrannofex: Dermic Symbiosis, Acid Spray 195

2000 pts, 11 CP

Typically you'd see a Kronos Patrol with whatever battalion. But that comes with a CP tax and an HQ tax. I personally have found HQ to be a waste of points except for the 1 mandatory Neurothrope and Swarmlord. Having 2 fleets also complicates buffs from things like Venomthropes or Synapse. So lets just do what 9th edition wants us to do and run a mono sub-faction. Kronos by far has the most synergistic buffs for our shooting models so here we are.

2 Exocrines and 6 hive guard make up the bulk of the gunline. Tyrannofex is going to be more of a brawler. He'll provide the Exocrines some protection while also providing some extra mobile firepower. (If I could move and shoot 3 Exocrines then I'd take 3, but as it is only 1 Exocrine and move and shoot effectively).

The Warriors provide a beefy mid-field objective grabber while the Genestealers and Swarmlord provide a melee threat that can provide a high volume of attacks.

Lictors and Hormagaunts are just for deploy scramblers and holding wayward objectives. 

Venomthropes can mitigate damage for anything. They'll probably stay near the Exocrines just to mess with target priority. The Venomthropes may be the weakest unit here, but they are Infantry so they could also deploy scramblers or raise the banners.

[beetlejuice]

SL + 20 GS for 570pts just makes me cry with 9th fighting rules. I will never forgive GW for triple nerfing units in this manner. Maybe works in this kind of list though, push warriors and acidfex forwards, deploy stealers hidden in a corner, pray for no ignore LoS shoot (which isnt that much of a stretch) and double move charge t2 to steal an objective, maybe overrun to safety if favourable terrain. Question is if they can trade for 25% of enemies list or at least provide a no go zone to give a nice lead on primaries. Looking forward to your reports!

[zimko]

Yeah you've basically described how I hope to play them. I hope genestealers are low on the threat priority and/or safe out of los. The alternative is to run 60 termagants but I haven't had much success with them. A lot of players have the volume to shrug off termagants.

I have a tournament this weekend. It's going to be an outdoors tournament so that's pretty cool.

[cmob208]

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[brianb9999]

I’m interested to hear how the tournament went. I went 2-1 in my RTT with my gaunt list, but I’ve been kind of underwhelmed by the custom hive fleets, and I’m leaning towards a mono-Kronos build with a similar core once my 2nd exocrine arrives. I’ll post my write up shortly.

[zimko]

I also went 2-1. My loss was pretty high scoring. One of my wins was low scoring because it was against orcs and we only finished 3 turns. I'll post a write-up later tonight.

[zimko]

Game 1 vs Orcs: This was a casual player. He had 3 large mobs of boyz, ghazghkull, wierd boy, big-mech with kff, painboy, bomber, 2 small squads of commandos and 2 trukks with meganobs. He gave me first turn because he had no good targets for his suicide bomber, not sure he knew exactly how much shooting I had. I pumped up an exocrine with Symbiostorm and +1 damage, then destroyed the bomber with 1 salvo and put 4 wounds on ghazghkull. The other Exocrine killed some boyz. The tyrannofex stayed out of range to wait for the boyz to arrive. Genestealers double moved to a group of boyz on one flank and charged them, killing them with fight twice and using overrun to stay out of the threat range of the other boyz. This didn't matter much though because he used da-jump and got a 9" charge on the genestealers to wipe them out. I then charged those boyz with warriors, killed about half. He then used 3cp strat to bring the full unit back on his board edge. On the other flank, I blew up trucks and nobs with exocrines and I was content to give up an objective on that flank for the boyz. I scored an easy Deploy Scramblers with Lictors, some points with engage on all fronts and some points with cull the hordes (or whatever it's called now). Time was called after 3 turns. Tyranids win 53 to 26

Game 2 vs White Scars: This was against a very experience player who didn't have an optimal list but still a decent one with lots of overlapping buffs. And White Scars just have ridiculous chapter rules with everything being able to advance and charge, fallback and charge, advance and shoot without penalty... like who comes up with this (please do not swear)? But I digress.
His list included: Captain with some trait that lets him pick a unit to fight last within 6", 6 aggressors, 6 melta dudes, 3 venerable dreads with lascannons(this was the suboptimal part, he didn't have the models yet for what he really wanted), 2 units of bikers, 3 units of assault intercessors, a unit of the scouting intercessors, a chaplain with some reroll stuff... there might be more but that's what I remember.

Mission: This was mission 32. 5 objectives with table quarter deployment. I took the special secondary which is get 3 points if you hold the middle objective or the objective inside your opponent's deployment zone at the end of the turn. 5 points if you control both. I also took Engage on all Fronts and Scramblers. So none of my secondaries involve killing anything. My opponent took the big game hunter one (3 points for monster), Engage on all fronts and Abhor the Witch.

Top Turn 1: He got first turn. I deployed pretty aggressively with my Exocrines hoping for first turn. Genestealers, Tyrannofex and Swarmlord hid behind Obscuring terrain. Everything had -1 to hit aura. He moved his 6 melta dudes into range and LOS of my Exocrines and overkills one of them. Then his dreadnoughts do almost nothing to the other Exocrine with 6 lascannon shots (I got lucky here). He moved aggressors and intercessors to the middle but only gets a few models on the middle objective. His scout unit deployed onto a corner objective on my right side. He advanced bikes into my left flank table quarter for Engage on All Fronts. That was it. I got off pretty easy there. So at the end of his turn, he scored 3 for big game, 2 for engage, and has models on 3 of 5 objectives.

Bottom Turn 1: On my turn 1, I buffed up the Exocrine and wiped out the meltas. The Tyrannofex moved towards the middle and sprayed the aggressors, killing 1. I used Swarmlord's hive commander on the warriors to charge the bikes that were speeding towards the left corner objective. They killed 1 and tri-pointed the unit. I advanced hormagaunts onto the left corner objective. The other hormagaunts unit advanced just enough models onto the middle objective to hold it, giving me 3 points for my secondary. The genestealers continued to hide until a good target presented itself (I couldn't charge the aggressors and intercessors safely because of the warlord that would make them fight last). The Hive Guard shot and killed the scout intercessors, removing my opponent from that objective. I had to double shoot to do that. Venomthropes deployed scramblers.

Top of Turn 2: He held 1 objective for 5 points. His aggressors, 5 intercessors and Captain all moved up to charge the Tyrannofex on the middle objective. Intercessors shot the hormagaunts in the middle, killing 6. The remaining 4 were out of LOS but off the middle objective. Another unit of assault intercessors moved to charge the warriors that are stuck in combat with bikes (none of these models are on an objective, the warriors did a good job tar-pitting him here) Dreadnoughts moved to take the right side objective and gain LOS on the Tyrannofex and Exocrine. In shooting, his dreadnoughts kill the Exocrine. The aggressors dont have any targets except the Tyrannofex, who shrugs off their attacks. The Assault Intercessors charge the Tyrannofex, who kills 2 in overwatch. Then the 4 remaining aggressors and the captain all charged the Tyrannofex, killing him with power fists and a thunderhammer. The warriors were charged by an assault intercessor unit but my opponent didn't bring all their attacks to bear since he was stringing them out to help hold the middle objective. The warriors still lose a couple models. The warriors killed 1 intercessors. End of his turn: He scores 2 for Engage on all Fronts and 6 more for big game.

Bottom of Turn 2: I score 10 points for holding 2 objectives. I'm feeling pretty good about this game. I still have Hive Guard, Swarmlord and Genestealers, some warriors, Hormagaunts, Venomthropes, and 2 lictors to bring in. I see an opening to his back objective with the Genestealers and I took it. His back objective had 3 bikes on it. The Swarmlord used Hive Commander on the Genestealers and they made it all the way to that objective. The Swarmlord moved himself towards the middle to try and finish off the assault intercessors and the captain after, I hoped, the aggressors were killed by shooting. The Hive Guard shot and killed 3 of the aggressors, leaving 1 for the Swarmlord to deal with. My unit of 4 hormagaunts moved to take the middle objective with obsec. The Hormagaunts on the left objective moved out of LOS but still on the objective. Lictor deployed in my opponent's corner and deployed scramblers. The genestealers charged the 3 bikes on his home objective and wiped them out. The Swarmlord charged the captain and aggressor, killing both. End of my turn, I get 5 for holding the middle and his home objective. I get 3 for Engage on All Fronts, and I deployed another scrambler.

Top of Turn 3: I held him to 5 points again. But this is where things start going badly. The dreadnoughts kill the Swarmlord. He took 6 invuls and failed all 6 of them. Killing the Swarmlord gives him 5 points for abhor the witch and 3 points for big game. Then my opponent rolled low on damage and Catalyst almost kept him alive, but didn't. The warriors finally died in melee this turn, freeing up the remaining bike and assault intercessors. Oh yeah, I remember now he has a jetbike captain. So that thing speeds across the board from behind terrain and charges my hive guard. The lone surviving intercessors (with thunderhammer) from the middle brawl advances and charges Hive Guard too. A unit of 5 Assault Intercessors double back to the genestealers. Between shooting and melee, they wipe out the genestealers (dont you love seeing space marines with more attacks than tyranids?)

Rest of the game: At this point I am out of steam. I manage to get some more points from engage and scramblers, but my opponent gets 15 for primary on turns 4 and 5. Final score is 82 to 74 Loss for Tyranids.

I did lose, but that game felt pretty good. I felt like I had a shot, which is more than I can say every other time I've faced this opponent so far this edition.

Game 3 was vs Nurgle. He had 3 plagueburst crawler, a huge great unclean one, 3 vehicles with multi-meltas that are in a squad, a drill with plaguemarines, 3 units of nurglings, flamer dude, pox dude, demonprince.

Mission 33: deployment is sort of like vanguard, but different. 5 objectives again but you get to move 2 of them and you secretly pick one to be your priority objective. The special secondary mission involves these priority objectives. If you hold one of them at the end of the turn, it's 3 points, 2 it's 5 points. We both took this objective but I choose an objective way in the corner because I was banking on him not having high mobility. We both took engage on all fronts. I took scramblers while he took While we stand, we fight (His 3 models are the great unclean one, a demon prince and one of the plagueburst crawlers).

Top Turn 1: He got first turn. He moved his huge great unclean one to the middle objective. He attempted to give it toxic miasma for -1 to hit but I shut that down with the Kronos Strat. His plagueburst crawlers killed only 1 Hive Guard thanks to venomthropes. But, his melta vehicles managed to get within LOS of my warriors and killed 5 of them. That hurt, I thought they were safe. Oh well. He got 2 for Engage on All Fronts mostly due to Nurglings. He also got 3 points for Priority objective.

Bottom Turn 1: I decided to go for the big one. I fully buff an exocrine with +1 damage and symbiostorm. I then unload EVERYTHING into the big daemon. 24 Exocrine shots, 24 Hive Guard shots, 2d6 acid spray shots and 2 smites. I then charged him with the Swarmlord who was forced to fight last thanks to yet another aura of '(please do not swear) your melee'. But the big daemon only had 4 attacks since I did so much damage to it and Swarmlord survived. I managed to get the great unclean one to 1 wound remaining. (4+ disgustingly resilient and he used a stratagem in both the shooting phase and fight phase to give him a 4+ invul). But that's fine, he's basically dead, and the Swarmlord can survive his attacks. While all that happened, I launched the Genestealers at the Nurglings holding his priority objective next to his plagueburst crawlers. They wipe out the nurglings and touch 2 of the plagueburst crawlers. So score 5 for Priority since I hold both, 2 for Engage and I used scramblers in my deployment zone.

Top Turn 2: He scored 10 points for primary. As predicted, his great unclean one does nothing in melee to the Swarmlord, and dies to the Swarmlord, who then consolidates into melee range of his flamer character. I then used 'fight twice' stratagem to kill that character, giving the Swarmlord sole ownership of the middle objective. The 2 Plagueburst crawlers in melee with the Genestealers rolled VERY hot with their shots and killed all but 1 genestealers. That genestealer died in melee to some character that I dont know what it is or does but it only has 4 wounds and 3 attacks. So he gets his priority objective back. His melta vehicles tried to kill Hive Guard but he rolled poorly and only killed 2. The third plagueburst crawler shot at Hive Guard and did nothing (again thanks to venomthropes). He scores 2 for engage and 3 for priority, and lost one of his 'while we stand' models.

Bottom Turn 2: I scored 15 for primary. Swarmlord double moved himself to the Plagueburst Crawler that counts for 'While we stand'. He charged it and bad-touched another crawler nearby. However, he doesn't kill it this turn. Exocrines lit up his drill vehicle (which he deployed on the board as a normal transport) and destroyed it, spilling out the plaguemarines inside. The Hive Guard did nothing significant. Hormagaunts continued to hold my corner priority objective. The other hormagaunts deployed scramblers in the middle. Warriors tied up nurglings. Tyrannofex moved onto the middle objective.

The rest of this game is a little fuzzy, but a highlight as that a Lictor actually killed a character. I put a lictor in his corner for scramblers on turn 3. Then on turn 4 he moved to and charged that weak character that was on his priority objective and actually killed him. This gave me his priority objective for 3 points which maxed that secondary. Tyrannofex and a plagueburst crawler had a wrestling match on the center objective while a Hormagaunts 2 inches away watched, holding the objective. The Swarmlord did finally destroy that Plagueburst crawler that denied my opponent 5 more points for 'while we stand, we fight' Hive Guard got wrecked by the melta tanks. The other lictor did a 24 inch move with metabolic overdrive on turn 4 to contest an objective, denying my opponent 5 points. The Final score was 84 to 73, tyranids win.

These were some good games. I like the list. It felt competitive. Despite their cost, I think 1 unit of Genestealers works. They provide a high volume of attacks for help against hordes (good luck killing 30 boyz with just shooting), and their fast movement lets you take objectives that your opponent thinks are safe. With 2 Exocrines, 1 Tyrannofex and Hive Guard on the board, the Genestealers are largely ignored. In the first two games my opponent couldn't do much about them. But in the 3rd game, he chose to shoot my Hive Guard with his LOS ignoring shots instead of the Genestealers.

I really dont miss the extra HQ. 2 psychers is good enough. Abhor the witch still gives up 10 points if both die, but it would be 15 if I had another. Synapse was never a problem, and I still have 4 denies thanks to Resonance Barb plus the Kronos Stratagem. I was able to easily shut down the Nurgle player's psychic phase every turn. So I think going mono-detachment was a good idea.

The Warriors were excellent tar-pitters. They didn't do much damage but I didn't need them to. I was able to throw them mid-field on a flank, and expect them to hold that flank for a couple turns, allowing me to focus all my energy elsewhere. They filled a role I didn't have before and were also ideal catalyst targets.

The Tyrannofex was decent. I wouldn't say he killed his points, but he was a decent 'distraction carnifex'. He absorbed a lot punishment with T8, -1 to hit, 3+5++ and 14 wounds. He was able to get into melee, survive melee, and then dump 4d6 acid spray shots into whatever he was in melee with. This worked in 2 of the games. In game 2 vs the marines, aggressors punched him out before he could do much. If there was a unit I'd consider changing, it would be the Tyrannofex. But right now I don't know what else to try except maybe another unit of Warriors. But Warriors would also die to Aggressors. In fact, they may die even harder thanks to shooting being more effective against warriors than the Tyrannofex. However, taking out the Tyrannofex for Warriors would reduce the number of points I give up to the monster killing secondary. So that's something to consider.

[brianb9999]

Glad to hear it went relatively well. I definitely think I need to try the 1 unit of stealers as a counterpunch, fast melee threat. With all your shooting, it seems that psychic damage isn't as necessary (and only giving up 10 for abhor is big). I think I'm still of the mindset that you need a lot of synapse coverage, but synapse is the least important it's ever been, and warriors are a decent mid-board anchor. I'm going to try more of a hybrid gun line/horde list and see if I can have some success, but I like the direction of this list.

Incidentally, my loss was also against White Scars in the final game, the same player/list I fought last week in practice and nearly wiped with my Nidzilla list. It's just...way too many bodies to kill that are in your face from the get go, even on hammer/anvil deployment. Definitely wished I had my big bugs back for that game :/

[zimko]

Yeah I think White Scars are extremely dangerous right now. It's like every unit is a genestealer unit but with shooting and 3+ armor.

[zimko]

I'm thinking I may try fitting in 2 units of Warriors. If I remove the Hormagaunts and 4 genestealers, then I can take 2 units of 8 warriors with twin boneswords. I was surprised by how effective the Warriors could be in combat even with just rending claws. So with 8 models and twin swords, they'd have more attacks than the 9 with rending claws and would have AP -2. The Tyrannofex would lose Dermic Symbiosis to give both warrior units Enhanced Resistance, but honestly I didn't find 5++ to matter much. His main defense is -1 to hit from Venomthropes and T8. The Hormagaunts were ok, but all they did was run to an objective and tried to not die. Which of course they eventually did when the warriors finally died and the hormagaunts were charged. So with this list, if those Hormagaunts were instead ANOTHER unit of Warriors then I could really help support that flank with ob-sec that has a decent chance at killing what they attack in melee.

I just dont like spending points on units that can't deal damage (gaunts and gants). They cost too much for that. Lictors are the exception because 37 pts are a steal for what they bring for Engage on all Fronts and Scramblers. Everything else in the army needs to be able to kill something or they just don't pull their weight. Because the best way to mitigate incoming damage is to remove threats. And venomthropes don't do much damage but they do provide a very useful aura and they can perform infantry actions on turn one.

[No One]

Twin boneswords aren't chainswords, second pair does nothing

[zimko]

Oct 26, 2020 14:12:42 GMT No One said:

Twin boneswords aren't chainswords, second pair does nothing

When I say 'twin boneswords' I just mean a single set of boneswords. So you get +1 attack and AP 2 for 3 points. But you still have a set of scything talons.

[zimko]

For clarification, here's the new list
Battalion Kronos
HQ
- Neurothrope: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb 95
- Swarmlord: Catalyst, Onslaught 270
Troops
- 16 Genestealers 240
- 8 Warriors: Enhanced Resistance, 8 Boneswords 192
- 8 Warriors: Enhanced Resistance, 8 Boneswords 192
Elites
- 6 Hive Guard 300
- Lictor 37
- Lictor 37
- 3 Venomthropes 99
Heavy Supports
- Exocrine 170
- Exocrine 170
- Tyrannofex: Acid Spray 195

1997 pts, 11 CP

[brianb9999]

So here's my take:

Kronos Battalion

HQ
Swarmlord (onslaught, psychic scream) 270
Neuro (symbiostorm, resonance barb, warlord) 95
Neuro (catalyst) 95

Troops
16 Genestealers, 4 acid maw 240
15 Hormagaunts 90
15 Hormagaunts 90
13 Termagants 65
13 Termagants 65

Elites
6 Hive Guard, impalers 300
Lictor 37
3 Venomthropes 99

Fast
30 Gargoyles 210

Heavy
Exocrine (dermic symbiosis) 170
Exocrine (dermic symbiosis) 170

1996 points, 11 CP

It's a fairly balanced list overall in terms of overall play and yielding secodnaries. It's got some speed with gargoyles, stealers, and Swarmlord, some psychic/anti-psychic, excellent shooting, and a decent, but not outrageous number of bodies. It gives up max on abhor but it's kind of a trap pick in most cases with 2 neurothropes, only 14 for thin their ranks if I'm flat-out tabled, and only 9 for bring it down (also not an easy task with Swarmlord and beefy exocrines). Scramblers and engage can be in play every game, even WWSWF in some cases (Swarmy and both exos). I think I'll give it a spin next chance I get.

[zimko]

I think you'll find that gaunts and gants are not able to hold mid-field. Space Marines and Admech in particular have a high volume of shots and melee attacks that can pick those units up in 1 to 2 turns. As can orks. My last tournament had 2 ork players with a horde list. I like having warriors as a solid anchor whom can at least survive a couple turns in melee but that could be meta dependant. The #1 admech player in the world is in every tournament I play at and his Ad-mech list wiped out 60 gaunts on turn 1 the last time I played him. I took 120 and half of them were gone before I could even move. I haven't played him since I started using Warriors but I hope they can hold up better with T4, 4+ saves and a smaller footprint so I can actually hide them on turn 1. He may be an outlier but I think the meta is shifting to hordes and counter-hordes and sadly we can't compete with that. Our gaunts are too fragile and dont do enough damage.