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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 5:01:44 GMT
Hey guys, still new to warhammer been playing for two months or so. But somehow came into a fairly long unexpected winning streak with veterans at the shop. Would like to keep it going so I’m looking for opinions on how to improve
++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Tyranids) [63 PL, 1,175pts, 8CP] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Detachment CP [-3CP]
Hive Fleet: Kraken
+ Stratagems +
Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [12 PL, 230pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Arachnacyte Gland, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: The Horror, Toxin Sacs, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Accelerated Digestion
Hive Tyrant [12 PL, 225pts]: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Accelerated Digestion
The Swarmlord [14 PL, 270pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite
+ Troops +
Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Acid Maw, 10x Scything Talons
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws
Genestealers [8 PL, 150pts]: 2x Acid Maw, 10x Scything Talons
. 10x Genestealer: 10x Rending Claws
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
Termagants [3 PL, 50pts]
. 10x Termagant (Fleshborer): 10x Fleshborer
++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [39 PL, 825pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment CP
+ HQ +
Neurothrope [5 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Symbiostorm, Warlord
+ Troops +
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: Spinemaws
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 45pts]: Spinemaws
. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth
+ Elites +
Hive Guard [12 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Hive Guard (Impaler): 6x Impaler Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
Exocrine [9 PL, 170pts]
++ Total: [102 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)
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Post by N.I.B. on Sept 30, 2020 9:48:12 GMT
Kraken represent! Nice to see, I like the small Genestealer broods and choice of physiologies for the Flyrants. I wouldn't make pre-emptive changes until I start losing.
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Post by brianb9999 on Sept 30, 2020 11:16:18 GMT
Accelerated digestion is something I haven't really seen. How is that working out with your choppy tyrants? Also, how are you using those 10-man stealer squads? This is something I've seen suggested more often.
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Post by No One on Sept 30, 2020 14:34:18 GMT
Interesting: had completely forgotten digestion. Not sure about it over size though, especially for both with Swarmlord to boot: I think you'll probably not kill enough reliably/just die too quick without the damage to capitalise. But has potential.
Similarly not sure about the double talons, vs MRC+gun. It has merit against multi wound stuff, but...not sure that it's worth, especially without size.
Don't like the arachnacyte: there is a benefit, but don't think even close to good enough, especially without DS charges. Barbed, on the other hand, is very strong, especially for flyrants. You should definitely have that. Chamelionic should also be worth the CP.
Also, spine maws? Really? Toxin sacs on the flyrant, anything really...Otherwise, seems like a solid list. Not sure how I feel about the 10 man stealers: seems they have a purpose, but not sure if that's best served at 10 (or better over horms).
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 16:51:39 GMT
Aight so how I’ve used it I keep the rippers and flyrant burrowed and flying high, on my first turn I run the genestealers up with hive commander and opertunistic advance if needed metabolic overdrive to make gain control of the objectives swarmlord moves and advances behind the stealers. Termagants run up the board and take whatever objectives they can reach end of movement first turn bring in the flyrants first behind their lines so it turns their attention behind them and pop up the rippers on any remaining objectives. Keeping my exocrines on my back objectives and my hive guard out of sight and untargetable. Swarmlord cast his spells first to bait any Deny the witch. Hive tyrants then cast theirs synaptic lure being most important but the horror and catalyst put in work, then nuerothrope symbiostorm the hive guard to make them all the more deadly, head to the shooting phase unload the exocrines and hive guard on whatever’s in range, on to charging charge the weaker tyrant first preferably into anything that has blast weapons try to bait the overwatch with a 4 up invuln and a way to reliably heal he’s usually safe they’ve only been killed in one out of like ten games but that was from me not knowing how busted wolfen are. Once their main units are locked into combat on all sides front back left right by the flyrants and stealers you kind of just repeat the cycle fall back on movement unload your guns charge again trying to keep them in their deployment zone. Doing this has gave me like 2 to 3 turns per game of racking up all of the primary points while also grabbing your secondary’s genestealers tend to die first but that’s fine run the swarmlord around picking off any leftover units that get caught out the hive tyrants can go wherever so shoot them around as needed with breaks to kill infantry to heal up as needed now they may be trying to gain the objectives but it’s okay we should have thinned the ranks enough that the hive guard and exocrines clean up what’s left late game. To deny them objectives if they happen to wipe our frontline. But so far this list has beat the mirrormatch, thousand sons, death guard with daemons, space wolves, blood angels, it’s put down a knight despoiler on turn one with ease. Ultimately buy time score points and play to the objectives.
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 17:04:15 GMT
Interesting: had completely forgotten digestion. Not sure about it over size though, especially for both with Swarmlord to boot: I think you'll probably not kill enough reliably/just die too quick without the damage to capitalise. But has potential. Similarly not sure about the double talons, vs MRC+gun. It has merit against multi wound stuff, but...not sure that it's worth, especially without size. Don't like the arachnacyte: there is a benefit, but don't think even close to good enough, especially without DS charges. Barbed, on the other hand, is very strong, especially for flyrants. You should definitely have that. Chamelionic should also be worth the CP. Also, spine maws? Really? Toxin sacs on the flyrant, anything really...Otherwise, seems like a solid list. Not sure how I feel about the 10 man stealers: seems they have a purpose, but not sure if that's best served at 10 (or better over horms). I chose staying power over actually killing things with the flyrants they are there to lock things in combat and give them something scary to look at, the 10 man squads of stealers can charge the first turn whereas hormagaunts can’t so you get 10 stealers hidden in melee first turn whereas the giants would be shot down and wouldn’t do much, spine maws yes because we have stratagems that make them work if we need to increased damage and wound rolls but really they are just for grabbing objectives early. If they get close enough to actually threaten our termagants and rippers they will for sure be in range of all our gunfire and will be dispatched quickly. |
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 17:25:36 GMT
One last thing to clear up, fleshborers the nuerothrope and the tyrants are built to be cost effective so all the battlefield rolls for the CAPs system are met with ample bodies all of our units die easy so I only invested enough in each unit to make them efficient and still do what I need them to do. They aren’t here to kill they are here to control and aggravate and make the opponent not play the game but try to kill stuff while we play the game.
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Post by beetlejuice on Sept 30, 2020 22:27:22 GMT
Aight so how I’ve used it I keep the rippers and flyrant burrowed and flying high, on my first turn I run the genestealers up with hive commander and opertunistic advance if needed metabolic overdrive to make gain control of the objectives swarmlord moves and advances behind the stealers. Termagants run up the board and take whatever objectives they can reach end of movement first turn bring in the flyrants first behind their lines so it turns their attention behind them and pop up the rippers on any remaining objectives. Keeping my exocrines on my back objectives and my hive guard out of sight and untargetable. Swarmlord cast his spells first to bait any Deny the witch. Hive tyrants then cast theirs synaptic lure being most important but the horror and catalyst put in work, then nuerothrope symbiostorm the hive guard to make them all the more deadly, head to the shooting phase unload the exocrines and hive guard on whatever’s in range, on to charging charge the weaker tyrant first preferably into anything that has blast weapons try to bait the overwatch with a 4 up invuln and a way to reliably heal he’s usually safe they’ve only been killed in one out of like ten games but that was from me not knowing how busted wolfen are. Once their main units are locked into combat on all sides front back left right by the flyrants and stealers you kind of just repeat the cycle fall back on movement unload your guns charge again trying to keep them in their deployment zone. Doing this has gave me like 2 to 3 turns per game of racking up all of the primary points while also grabbing your secondary’s genestealers tend to die first but that’s fine run the swarmlord around picking off any leftover units that get caught out the hive tyrants can go wherever so shoot them around as needed with breaks to kill infantry to heal up as needed now they may be trying to gain the objectives but it’s okay we should have thinned the ranks enough that the hive guard and exocrines clean up what’s left late game. To deny them objectives if they happen to wipe our frontline. But so far this list has beat the mirrormatch, thousand sons, death guard with daemons, space wolves, blood angels, it’s put down a knight despoiler on turn one with ease. Ultimately buy time score points and play to the objectives. You can’t deepstrike rippers and flyrants turn 1 in matched play so you either deploy them on the line and risk getting deleted turn 1 (unless good obscuring terrain available) or hope for first turn and likely make most of your turn 1 charges (likely into screens). Do not see how this gives a win in 90% of the games since 50% of games you will go second and not be able to keep opponent in hos deployment zone reliably. If swarmlord is using hive commander on genestealers he needs to advance and then successful onslaught to charge which is far from a sure thing with deny the witch and quite a few stratagem denies available nowadays. Without a charge he will be a sitting duck in no man’s land (depending on terrain) and likely annihilated in enemy’s first shooting phase. |
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 22:49:50 GMT
You can totally deepstrike them turn one, that faq back in 8th doesn’t apply read the first line in strategic reserves in the rulebook. And i didn’t have to go first to win those games I went second more times than not but going second is almost better more times than not they turned around and had to come back to their deployment to deal with the hive tyrants.
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 23:09:53 GMT
Aight so how I’ve used it I keep the rippers and flyrant burrowed and flying high, on my first turn I run the genestealers up with hive commander and opertunistic advance if needed metabolic overdrive to make gain control of the objectives swarmlord moves and advances behind the stealers. Termagants run up the board and take whatever objectives they can reach end of movement first turn bring in the flyrants first behind their lines so it turns their attention behind them and pop up the rippers on any remaining objectives. Keeping my exocrines on my back objectives and my hive guard out of sight and untargetable. Swarmlord cast his spells first to bait any Deny the witch. Hive tyrants then cast theirs synaptic lure being most important but the horror and catalyst put in work, then nuerothrope symbiostorm the hive guard to make them all the more deadly, head to the shooting phase unload the exocrines and hive guard on whatever’s in range, on to charging charge the weaker tyrant first preferably into anything that has blast weapons try to bait the overwatch with a 4 up invuln and a way to reliably heal he’s usually safe they’ve only been killed in one out of like ten games but that was from me not knowing how busted wolfen are. Once their main units are locked into combat on all sides front back left right by the flyrants and stealers you kind of just repeat the cycle fall back on movement unload your guns charge again trying to keep them in their deployment zone. Doing this has gave me like 2 to 3 turns per game of racking up all of the primary points while also grabbing your secondary’s genestealers tend to die first but that’s fine run the swarmlord around picking off any leftover units that get caught out the hive tyrants can go wherever so shoot them around as needed with breaks to kill infantry to heal up as needed now they may be trying to gain the objectives but it’s okay we should have thinned the ranks enough that the hive guard and exocrines clean up what’s left late game. To deny them objectives if they happen to wipe our frontline. But so far this list has beat the mirrormatch, thousand sons, death guard with daemons, space wolves, blood angels, it’s put down a knight despoiler on turn one with ease. Ultimately buy time score points and play to the objectives. You can’t deepstrike rippers and flyrants turn 1 in matched play so you either deploy them on the line and risk getting deleted turn 1 (unless good obscuring terrain available) or hope for first turn and likely make most of your turn 1 charges (likely into screens). Do not see how this gives a win in 90% of the games since 50% of games you will go second and not be able to keep opponent in hos deployment zone reliably. If swarmlord is using hive commander on genestealers he needs to advance and then successful onslaught to charge which is far from a sure thing with deny the witch and quite a few stratagem denies available nowadays. Without a charge he will be a sitting duck in no man’s land (depending on terrain) and likely annihilated in enemy’s first shooting phase. Obviously don’t leav swarmlord our in the open get him onto a side objective or keep him advancing behind cover, ive had swarmlord die once against admech, going first or second doesn’t change the gam plan, if anything it gives your backline more targets and makes the genstealer wall more effective, while giving more room for the hive tyrants to deploy, and I know I said this a second ago but You can deepstrike with their ability’s on turn one. Strategic reserves states that the rules do not apply to abilities and stratagems etc and to refer to the rules on the data sheet. Which state at the end of movement on “Any” turn. However like or dislike the list I’ve been doing pretty well with it, would like to build a list that doesn’t rely on genestealers for match ups with good melee. |
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Post by cmob208 on Sept 30, 2020 23:13:48 GMT
Looks like a good and fun list! But no you can't deep strike turn 1 unfortunately.
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Post by tyranoninja on Sept 30, 2020 23:27:37 GMT
Looks like a good and fun list! But no you can't deep strike turn 1 unfortunately. Page 256 9th Ed rulebook. “Strategic reserves are forces that one or both sides have chosen not to deploy at the start of the battle. These rules explain how to place units into strategic reserves, as well as how they arrive on the battlefield. Note that these rules do not apply to units that are using other rules that enable them to start the battle in a location other than the battlefield. Such units are not placed in strategic reserves and they are instead set up as described by their own rules. Swooping Assault: during deployment, you can set up a hive tyrant with wings circling high above instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of ANY of your movement phases it can swoop down. So yes their was an faq that changed that in late 8th edition however the 9th edition rulebook supersedes that. So far they have not faqed the 9th rulebook Strategic Reserves to my knowledge. |
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Post by No One on Oct 1, 2020 1:20:45 GMT
You can’t deepstrike rippers and flyrants turn 1 in matched play so you either deploy them on the line and risk getting deleted turn 1 (unless good obscuring terrain available) or hope for first turn and likely make most of your turn 1 charges (likely into screens). Do not see how this gives a win in 90% of the games since 50% of games you will go second and not be able to keep opponent in hos deployment zone reliably. If swarmlord is using hive commander on genestealers he needs to advance and then successful onslaught to charge which is far from a sure thing with deny the witch and quite a few stratagem denies available nowadays. Without a charge he will be a sitting duck in no man’s land (depending on terrain) and likely annihilated in enemy’s first shooting phase. You totally can do this with flyrants on board going 2nd (unless terrain is terrible). How reliably, I'm yet to figure out. But between Swarmlord sling 1, and onslaught (chuck it on Swarmlord, he'll rarely be in deny/strat range) you can get 1, sometimes 2 very effective T1 charges. Or if terrain is good you can even just continue hiding midfield. Now, doing that and getting the stealers into anything important? Eh. So yes their was an faq that changed that in late 8th edition however the 9th edition rulebook supersedes that. So far they have not faqed the 9th rulebook Strategic Reserves to my knowledge. It's in the mission pack, under declare reserves. In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round. Same thing in GT pack. So no, you can't do this. You can do a similar thing starting on board, but that needs Swarmlord and onslaught, and either luck or strong terrain into an aggressive deployment. |
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Post by tyranoninja on Oct 1, 2020 1:36:31 GMT
You can’t deepstrike rippers and flyrants turn 1 in matched play so you either deploy them on the line and risk getting deleted turn 1 (unless good obscuring terrain available) or hope for first turn and likely make most of your turn 1 charges (likely into screens). Do not see how this gives a win in 90% of the games since 50% of games you will go second and not be able to keep opponent in hos deployment zone reliably. If swarmlord is using hive commander on genestealers he needs to advance and then successful onslaught to charge which is far from a sure thing with deny the witch and quite a few stratagem denies available nowadays. Without a charge he will be a sitting duck in no man’s land (depending on terrain) and likely annihilated in enemy’s first shooting phase. You totally can do this with flyrants on board going 2nd (unless terrain is terrible). How reliably, I'm yet to figure out. But between Swarmlord sling 1, and onslaught (chuck it on Swarmlord, he'll rarely be in deny/strat range) you can get 1, sometimes 2 very effective T1 charges. Or if terrain is good you can even just continue hiding midfield. Now, doing that and getting the stealers into anything important? Eh. So yes their was an faq that changed that in late 8th edition however the 9th edition rulebook supersedes that. So far they have not faqed the 9th rulebook Strategic Reserves to my knowledge. It's in the mission pack, under declare reserves. In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and Reinforcement units can never arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round. Same thing in GT pack. So no, you can't do this. You can do a similar thing starting on board, but that needs Swarmlord and onslaught, and either luck or strong terrain into an aggressive deployment. Ah I see it now, well I was wrong and that totally changes things. Back to the drawing board. |
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