Lictors in 9th, ideas for new rules for our new codex

[onewiththehive]

Hello Hive,

as I am thinkung about some of the rules that have changed in 9th and the possible chance of getting new rules for old unused models, I come to the following idea for lictors. Basically it is a different approach of how our "sniper/assasin" might work, maybe with some help by his flesh hooks and the new coherency rules

I am not talking about statlines, it's basically the way flesh hooks could get a unique flavor in 40k. The idea is not new, but the circumstances have changed with 9th

If a lictor shoots something with his flesh hooks, that model gets pulled out of his unit and closer to the lictor or maybe even into base contact. This would lead to the following:

1. the lictor is now in cc and counts as having charged this turn

2. the target unit now counts as being in cc, too.

3. the pulled out model is out of coherency

now the fight phase starts, what could happen are the following things:

1. the lictor kills the model and it is removed as a casualty, fighting ends here

2. the lictor can't manage to kill the model or other models will be removed as casualty, now the opponent gets the chance to use his fightingphase to close the gap (possible with 2x3" movement, but only if the lictor is the closest model) The pulled out model attacks and either kills the lictor or not, but it is in coherency after so no additional losses. Or it chooses not to get closer to the lictor so that single model gets the chance to strike at the lictor but will be removed in the morale phase to regain coherency for the rest of the unit

it is also fluffy cause either the other models try to reach the pulled model to safe him or otherwise they are just leaving him for dead cause they are either to scarred to get closer to the lictor or they are too busy fighting other things to even notice that one of them was pulled away

the chance of being pulled out should be adjustet to infantry only (but i would love to see a knight or a baneblade pulled by a lictor )  and maybe based on a roll off, modified by strength and/or toughness of the models rolled for (maybe d6 + strength of the lictor against d6 + strength or toughness of the victim, depending what is higher)

maybe giving the lictor flesh hooks a sniping rule could give him the opportunity tu pull characters out of screeningbubbles. could have some usage too even if rarely used.

What do you think, would this change give the lictor some usage so he will see play from time to time? Elite slots are becoming rare with the new way detachments work, so he will need a good usage to compete against some of our other elites.

Or would this intervene too much with the basic rules of 40k? It's not that GW intervenes with their own rules from time to time too, espacially when thinking about Space marines (like the drop pod rulechange. Nothing can ever deep strike T1 anymore in any case, ever! Oh but look at this new codex SM with these drop pod rules that kicks the butt of that rule we just wrote the other day)

[planetkill]

I just want the Lictors work like the stealth assassins they are. Scout deployment out of deployment zone and some special stuff versus characters (eg. MW on 5+, closer deepstrike vs lone characters or 3 dice on the charge).

[infornography]

I don't think a system intentionally gaming the coherency rules is very fluffy... I like the idea of being able to pull characters regardless of character protection. Get them out of their safe places, pull support away from a firing line, etc.

I also think the lictor needs more punch and survivability (and cost to go with them), but the utility of being able to reshape the battlefield like that would be GREAT!

[kazetanade]

Pu them to the front and let the HG wail on them! 😂😂

[icetyrant]

I want them to be assassin-level bs, with DL being the true character slayer.

[Bohxim]

Think a cool rule for a lictor could be something like <hive fleet> are able to shoot at units the lictor is in engagement with. But roll a die when doing so, on a 1, the lictor takes d3 mortal wounds. Being an ambush/staller, it seems kinda fluffy to distract an enemy unit and they suddenly get shot at, but because its the same fleet, it has a significant chance of avoiding friendly fire

[kwisatzhaderach]

Something that has stuck with me since I read it was a post about how Tyranids should have a Flesh-Eater Courts like summoning ability.

A Hive Tyrant being able to summon a Carnifex, or a unit of Tyranid Warriors. A Tyranid Prime summoning a unit of Gaunts or Gants.

There is precedence for 40k armies getting rules from Age of Sigmar, and this would be an excellent one to take.

All I can hope is some 40k designer is reading these boards and moves forward with it!

Post here: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/987674/thread

[able]

The rules update has been good to lictors as utility pieces, even without their own rules changes. That said, I do think their whole role could do with some work. I would really like to see universal scouting rules rather than speshul mawines are speshul (even without GW not knowing the difference between a boy-scout and a military scout), and a stealth mechanic that wasn't just DR.

A system for representing taking control of the battlefield before the battle begins proper doesn't have to be complicated. Alternating deployment of scout units works fine provided everyone has it, and I think they should lean into it more. Heck, give every unit a 'scouting' value that represents how close to the nearest enemy unit or enemy deployment zone it can deploy, and let every unit deploy in no mans land if it is unclaimed. You could give some units a sentry value too, adding a value to how close to them you can deploy.

For stealth I would like something like a unit having to roll to target a stealth unit but being able to select a different nearby target if it fails. Maybe add a 'cannot benefit from FNP*' clause to limit too much layering. You could fold the 'look out sir' rules into it too, with something like granting a +1 stealth bonus defence to a character for every model within 3", with vehicles and monsters counting as 3. Max +3, but 1+ always passes and small characters get a 4+ stealth base, so small characters are untargetable when around 3 models. Using a model to get a modifier revokes any stealth defence it has for the rest of the phase (as well as granting LoS for that particular attack), so using characters to shield other characters can work, but some of them will always be targetable. 'Sniper' weapons would then be weapons that get a modifier against stealth rolls.

I would much rather they worked on making the underlying game systems richer than introducing gimmick units. Lictors are cool, but their role in warfare is not particularly special. Every army has scouts, and we don't need ours to be special. More complicated does not necessarily make the game richer. It often just makes it harder to play.

*unless nurgle. Let them keep their thing.