Would you play against a 3D printed army ?

[hunk]

Hey guys so now that I’ve gotten a hang of my 3D printer I wanted to ask you guys . Would you play against a 3D printed army ? I would definitely I really like playing and my main partners army is mostly kit-bashes from anvil industry. Is there something wrong with playing a 3D printed army? Do you think it’s immoral? I would like to hear your responses and opinions.

[mattblowers]

If you can tell it’s 3-D printed most players wouldn’t like it. Some tournaments ban it 40K is a luxury item; it would be like going to a Rolex convention with a China knockoff to display. The problem is the same for China fake Rolex, Chinacast models, or 3D printed models: you are benefitting from an artists work without compensating them and without their consent. If everybody did it there wouldn’t be the original to copy and the product line would end. From an economics standpoint this is a bad idea if you love the hobby. From a luxury standpoint this is a bad idea because you look like a poser. From a moral standpoint... I’m not going there because it starts arguments. IF you can do it successfully DON’T post about it or share files here as it is expressly against the rules and will get you banned.

[gigasnail]

I'll 3d print the living hell out of what I need to 3d print, all day every day and twice on sundays.

Wouldnt need to if they bothered to have bits and kits for their products.

As far as an entire 3d printed army, not likely for me because most of them are poor quality hack jobs. There are exceptions and one offs of high quality, but these are not the norm. To get the quality and style I want, I will have to learn to 3d sculpt on my own and I simply don't have the time.

[Overread]

3D printing is little different to buying and using 3rd party models from other companies other than GW (or the main brand of whatever game it is that you are playing).

The only key difference is that you can make greater savings (excluding the cost of a high end machine, materials, power and time to print) compared to buying brand new models.

The only major negative difference is that there are 3D Scanned files out here which copy GW (and other brand) models exact designs - which are not legal/moral to use. If you want a design made and sold by others, the very least you can do is support the hobby you enjoy by buying from them. Remember whatever your views on the prices of models on the market; at the end of the day your purchasing is helping put food on the table for that industry.



Otherwise its the same; GW stores and major events sponsored by GW won't allow them, same as they won't allow you to turn up with a whole army of Raging Heroes models. Of course if you convert one or two or parts of models or bases and such then that might well be fine. Again it will vary a bit.

Independent events (of which there are many) will be hit or miss and will depend on the organisers and the other players. So you'd have to ask them. Note that generally well converted/designed models well painted and clearly representing what they are meant to be (or at least easy to tell apart) are often more accepted than low grade models; lack of painting; confusing or otherwise missleading designs.



As a moral note if you play at a store regularly or otherwise rely on the services of a store locally (eg it helps promote your hobby club) then its generally a good idea to try and support that store where you can. Perhaps you 3D cast your army, but you buy all your model supplies through the store. Basically if you want the hobby to remain, money has to go into it. You don't have to be slaved to the store, but if they are providing something you are directly or indirectly benefiting from, then its good try and support them where you can.




As for me I've no problem playing a good 3D printed army. I've no problem playing a Raging Heroes army, or a Wargame Exclusive or your custom crafted Tyranids that you carved from pure greenstuff in your shed.

[gigasnail]

A 3d scanner with the resolution to scan something like warhammer models runs $30,000. I was just looking at them.

[Overread]

Aug 21, 2020 16:56:02 GMT gigasnail said:

A 3d scanner with the resolution to scan something like warhammer models runs $30,000. I was just looking at them.

Aye its unlikely someone would buy one just to do Warhammer models. More likely is someone works at a place which has one or uses one for other purposes and happens to be a warhammer fan.

That said I've never really looked into it. I'm "aware" that people say there's the files "out there" but as I've no interest in doing it and don't even own a 3D printer its not something I've researched. That said I'm sure there are some who have made almost like for like copies in 3D design.

[gigasnail]

i have looked, extensively, and you're not really seeing anything like GW quality models for download. in fact, most of them are very bad. there are a few exceptions; there are some IK models that are very cool for instance. there are some nice takes on the custodes FW tanks too, but that is nowhere near the norm. not even close.

[garg]

I would pay against a fully 3D printed / cheap copy army but i don't think i would look for more games with that person. I think it is cool too have a few custom models or conversions to save a bit of money but it is not good in the long run.

Right now i think it's okay and may compliment my opponent because i know it's a bit of work to do those prints. I've never seen the process for a resin printer start to finish but i know for an FDM printer it takes time to set up the print and maybe there'll be failed prints along the way.

[timcz]

My issue with 3D printing is you can usually tell something is 3d printed. I suspect it would be a lot of cleanup to make them look great before painting, and I find it hard enough to have opponents that paint their armies let alone print an entire army and then clean it up properly.

I did buy a printer (prusa i3) more than a year ago and it’s still only half built. One day I’ll finish it off but it will be mainly to print terrain and other random things.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d play against it, but I’d like to see some effort put into making it not look like (please do not swear).

[Hive Bahamut]

Aug 21, 2020 23:19:44 GMT timcz said:

My issue with 3D printing is you can usually tell something is 3d printed. I suspect it would be a lot of cleanup to make them look great before painting, and I find it hard enough to have opponents that paint their armies let alone print an entire army and then clean it up properly.

I did buy a printer (prusa i3) more than a year ago and it’s still only half built. One day I’ll finish it off but it will be mainly to print terrain and other random things.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d play against it, but I’d like to see some effort put into making it not look like (please do not swear).

This right here 100%. One of my new opponents is just about done his Astrodawgs? Imperial guard Vehicles. I see a checklist in place:

All 3D printed? Crisp and clean and wizard painted. Kind of tragically beautiful.

Some bits like guns and such? Conversions sometimes offend more. Who cares?


Unfortunately from what I have seen it is time consuming in the extreme, looks like (please do not swear), have to usually prep before paint big time, and seldom does anything actually have paint ON it.

He has some GW models but likes the theme so we shall see.

As it stands it is almost a little offensive that someone would rather cheat the game to play. Part of why games and such work is because you USE the same tools. Same size, same cost, same everything. Fair.

[gigasnail]

yeaaaaah if you think printing resin models isn't work, you, um, are just wrong. it's generally an order of magnitude more work and requires another complete skillset on top of your normal modeling skills.

[Hive Bahamut]

It is time consuming in the extreme, looks like (please do not swear)

I acknowledged that it takes way more time. Even setting up the support brackets takes a minor PhD in engineering.

It takes longer. Looks like (please do not swear), and is off scale. You probably save money buying GW models if you cost your time invested to even learn the software.

[infornography]

I would have absolutely no problem playing against a 3d printed model and would spend the entire time picking the guy's brain on how to make this stuff work. I have a CR-10 and I can tell you, learning how to 3d print models is an extremely time consuming hobby all by itself!

After you factor in failed prints and the materials and time it takes to figure out how to get the prints to take, I'm not sure there WOULD be a savings. If you had spent that time taking OT at work or doing a part time job on the side you could have afforded two or three times as many GW minis.

The main use of a 3d printer is to make UNIQUE minis. And mostly vehicles and buildings at that because infantry models are much harder to get to come out looking good.

As far as playing against an army like that, I would have no problem playing against a spruecron army so playing against a 3d printed one which takes orders of magnitude more effort and money definitely wouldn't phase me.

[yoritomo]

For the record, Hunk’s 3D printed models are in the conversion section if you ever want to check them out. Personally I think they are close enough that with a good paint job they could fool most people.

I think that there is more to unpack with this question than just a yes or no can suffice.

The first question I have is is my opponent a dick? If yes then I would not play his 3D printed army. This has less to do with his army being 3D printed and more looking for excuses not to play with people I don’t like.

The next question is how much of his army is army is 3D printed? If it’s just something like accents, special weapons, pauldrins, etc... then I have no problem playing against that. If it’s a couple of custom models that’s fine too. If it’s 100% 3D printed then I would probably play against it.

The next question I have is how does it look? If they look good than I’m more inclined to play against it. If his models look like lumpy mashed potatoes then I would be less likely to play against it. I may play against it at the beginning while he gets better models, but at some point I would stop playing against it.

The last question is what is my opponent’s motivation for using a 3D printed army? If he’s doing it to give the middle finger to Games Workshop then I would be less likely to play against it. Like Matt said, if GW doesn’t make money than we don’t have 40K. If he’s doing it to save a couple bucks I get it and would play against it, but at some point I would expect to see the same investment into the game that I have put into it. If he’s using his 3D printer to play the most broken stuff in any army than no, I would not play against it. Part of the balance of 40K is that new models are expensive to buy. It puts the breaks on the meta game to a degree. If you use a 3D printed to get around that than I will call you a dick and go back and read question one.

[infornography]

Aug 23, 2020 16:27:44 GMT yoritomo said:

The last question is what is my opponent’s motivation for using a 3D printed army? If he’s doing it to give the middle finger to Games Workshop then I would be less likely to play against it. Like Matt said, if GW doesn’t make money than we don’t have 40K. If he’s doing it to save a couple bucks I get it and would play against it, but at some point I would expect to see the same investment into the game that I have put into it. If he’s using his 3D printer to play the most broken stuff in any army than no, I would not play against it. Part of the balance of 40K is that new models are expensive to buy. It puts the breaks on the meta game to a degree. If you use a 3D printed to get around that than I will call you a dick and go back and read question one.

I feel I should point out again that 3D printing an army is WAY MORE time investment than assembling GW kits. If your objection is that they are quickly and cheaply just printing what they want to field at any given point you are probably way off base. It isn't quick and it isn't cheap. It just is spending the time and money differently.

I can see objecting if they have an entire poorly printed army or a 3D printed army that is just scans of GW models, but I doubt you would ever run into this hypothetical beast.
Anyone 3D printing an entire army is putting in a tremendous amount of time and money and they are probably doing it in large part to get a unique looking army. A few centerpiece units and vehicles/terrain can end up being substantially cheaper than GW, but smaller more detailed vehicles and infantry are INCREDIBLY difficult to get to come out well, even with a relatively good 3D printer. Just calibrate your expectations accordingly.