Force of the Hive Mind: Brains and Brawn

[nidzy]

Hey all, I ran GSC with a bullgryn detachment quite a bit in 8th and I wanted to try it again, except with new and improved Tyranid shooting. I am going to a small RTT this weekend and I wanted to try that concept out again.

I originally wrote this with 15 hive guard but since I dont have 15 hive guard I added Zoanthropes with the additional benefit of being able to call the list "brains and brawn"... I ended up putting the WL with the GSC to get free oppressors bane and because you don't get a command benefit for putting him in a vanguard. The FAE trait gives me at least that vanguard(vs patrol) CP back from the nids. It is a CP light army but it also cares less about that than most GSC lists. I am looking to save 3 CP to Uprising and otherwise try to keep double shooting hive guard. The Kelermorph is largely there to punish bad character placement and help score engage on all fronts. The list has pretty decent mortal wound output to go with pretty decent shooting and it should hold the middle against a lot of lists. What do you think?



GSC: FAE patrol

Patriarch: warlord(FAE trait), might from beyond

5x acolyte

Kelermorph: oppressors bane

Brood Brothers Patrol:

Primaris Psyker: psychic barrier/nightshroud

*edit* 10 infantry: 1 grenade launcher

8 bullgryn: mauls/slab shields
Munistorum Priest: chainsword

Tyranids: Kronos Vanguard

Neurothrope: symbiostorm
Neurotrhope: scream

5x hive guard: impaler
5x hive guard: impaler
5 zoanthrope: catalyst

exocrine: dermic
exicrine

[kazetanade]

Double HG isn't as good as just the 1 usually - I'd remove the 2nd unit and go 2 x 6 Zoeys, or add a pod for 1 Exo and get a Sanctus for free Perfect Ambush (either the sniper which isn't as good as before, or just a Blast Disabler with Dagger to charge in).

[gorsameth]

I think your biggest issue would be board control with this. You only have 2 units that want to leave your deployment zone to grab objectives,The Zoanthropes and Bullgryns.
As Kazetande suggested I would probably switch the 2nd Hive Guard unit to another Zoanthrope unit.
Maybe drop one of the 2 Neurothropes for more troops to put obsec bodies on objectives.

Isn't the Guard Patrol missing a troop choice?

[nidzy]

Aug 21, 2020 8:53:47 GMT kazetanade said:

Double HG isn't as good as just the 1 usually - I'd remove the 2nd unit and go 2 x 6 Zoeys, or add a pod for 1 Exo and get a Sanctus for free Perfect Ambush (either the sniper which isn't as good as before, or just a Blast Disabler with Dagger to charge in).

I generally intend to reserve the non dermic exo. The one CP means less to me than the points.


gorsameth you're right I failed to add it here but there is a squad of infantry in the list.

I am not sure that I agree about the second or the third squad of hive guard being worth it. My theory behind this list is that the opponent HAS to shoot the bullies early but to stop me from killing them they also have to kill the Exos and HG and it is going to be a tough bet that they do both things. If they manage that and I am still smiting 4 times a turn plus scream then I think I am winning that game. If they do that and I am not then I have definitely lost.

If I were going to replace the second squad of hive guard I think it would be with 7-9 warriors to follow the bullies, maybe dropping one neuro to a prime.

[kazetanade]

Give it a try. Main issue is that bullgryns are slow, and are an easy ignore option. They aren't bullies if they can't reach a target, so in this case I'd cede the middle to them and pick out the edges and back, which is straight into your HG and Exos.

Not all armies can do this ofc.

[nidzy]

This list did fine, I ended up going 1-2 but it was mostly because in game 2 I paired with a matchup and mission and table I knew I had to go first with to win(...went second), and in game 3 I COMPLETELY misread the output and abilities of my opponent while deploying.

I went second all 3 games. First turn is brutal in this edition. The terrain was not all set up correctly to help people in their DZ, but we had a good talk with the TO about it and he is totally on board with adjusting the setup in future events. If you can hide you can go second, if you can't you are punked unless you're list is real good at not dying. This is not a strength of tyranids/gsc.

1. Game 1 was a khorne soup list and was a cupcake matchup against an opponent I know and really like playing with but doesn't write competitive lists. This was further compounded by his reserves failing ALL OF THEIR REROLLABLE CHARGES on turn 2. I tabled him in the bottom of 3. 80-17

2. Game 2 was against my teammate and I was certain I could win. He was playing sisters with 12 mortifiers, 3 exorcists and then just sisters bodies/characters. I couldn't hide my hive guard from his exorcists on this table and we both agreed if I could have actually hidden my hive guard I could of won. Instead he killed 7 of them before I went, and managed to generate 2 6s on his first two miracle dice. Because I moved my bullgryn a little left of the center in my turn 1 to charge his remaining squad of mortifiers, I left them open to a "miracle" 12in repentia charge from reserve, while he tied up my right flank, occupied soley by zoanthropes and a neurothrope with a canoness who is immune to psychic powers and whom I also failed to kill with the kelermorph on turn 2 which stopped me from contesting his flank on that side. It still scored out something like 80-50

3. Game 3 I had absolutely no idea what was coming which was me getting shellacked. Evil sunz orks with 2 giant squiggoth filled with tank bustas, reserved ork boyz and some mech guns. I thought I hid one squad of hive guard but he got an angle on them around a building. I misplayed with both squads. If I had put them all on my back line this was almost certainly a win as I could have hid them, but instead he killed an exocrine, 10 hive guard and 3 bullies on turn one and then I failed to kill a giant squiggoth and it was over as he did a full shooting phase again, killed the second exo and put the zoey's down to one. GG. We found out after he had done it that he used more dakka strat when he should not have been able to inside of the giant squiggoth, I told him to just keep the result because I was bummed about it but he rolled it again and produced 6 more wounds, so just for (please do not swear) I rolled my 6+ saves and failed them all again. 90-30 but I count it as a concession for a fat zero. We went and bs'd for an hour or so while we waited for other folks to finish.



Winners:

-4-5 smites-zoanthropes and neurothropes put out a strong 15-20 mortal wounds per game. Ace for focusing down something that gets close. They killed a maulerfiend in game one, a dozen or so sisters in game 2 and most of a squiggoth in game 3.

-10 plus hive guard are a bedrock of the lists I will play competitively in this edition. I think they are hands down the best unit of the edition for us with the smaller tables. They are ALWAYS able to shoot at most objectives. I double shot three of them to finish off a squad of mortifiers in game 3 and it was absolutely worth it. They will also always be a target and they are unreasonably squishy for their cost. This is up to tables so I give a STRONG RECOMMEND to encouraging your TO's and yourselves to make obscuring terrain common.

Exocrines-we knew this already

Going first: I went second 3 times and lost to the two functional lists I faced.

Losers:

-The bullies are out. kazetanade was correct at least in their being a target an opponent can kill stuff behind/around/in front of until they are irrelevant, especially when going second. I think a warrior blob just fills the list better in that role, doesn't cost any CP necessarily.

Not sure:

-the GSC. The kelermorph was a game changing badass against a bad list in round one. I used the lying in wait/pa trick to kill a squad of cultists and a dark apostle off an objective, score that turns secondary (it was mission 32) and then subsequently soaking bolter fire then removing the banner on that objective. However, I never used Generations as it was never worth it in the game, the acolytes never made an impact and the patriarch was mostly an extra smite I didn't need as the bullies either handled the thing, or left him in the open. I will try a similar detachment again.

[kazetanade]

Warriors DO NOT fill the Bullgryn gap, at all. Warriors are reasonably tanky against shooting and can force an inordinate level of fire power to make sure they die since they're obsec, but they do not tank or pressure like bullgryns. Thankfully smashcaptains are much less frequent and with a reduce dmg dtrategem the warriors can last a lot longer, until they get stuck in with something like Centurions or Aggressors who are likely going to clean them off the board with bolters or melee (I don't think they need both). Bullgryns just survive all game long (unless bad rolls), and are great midfield Actions candidates because of it, while also representing an immense melee threat if ignored and strayed too close. Warriors are literally just bodies on objectives to buy time, so you need to make sure you can use the points differential to force a lot of scoring utility that doesn't need to interact with the enemy, or to really pump some damage out in your list (and no, Warriors with a Prime is not damage, I'd keep warriors stock cheap now).

The terrain issue is one of the main reasons I protest against using more than 1 unit of HG. Their shooting is good, that is undeniable, but most tables everywhere won't have the space to adequately hide 2, unless you are stacking several layers of obscuring.

Bit surprised a Kellermorph with Oppressors Bane failed to kill a Cannoness... Just bad luck there.

In your list the Patriarch is pretty much an accessory. You can use him as a suicide bomber, but I like Broodlords for that more due to fight when die if you had to. I would consider downgrading to a Magus and possibly using him to Pierce the Veil, or just be extra body to claim Line breaker. With extra points, get a Sanctus for same reasons but also for the Blast Disabler charges since PA is free on him.