New, new, new

[twistedmagpie]

Well good afternoon,

I am as new as it gets... This is my first foray into 40k (I'm an old 8th ed and ninth age fantasy player). I have chosen the xenos due to the absolutely beautiful models and an due for my first game on Saturday.

I know literally nothing about any other factions, lore out common models, not even what faction I'll be up against.

We're playing 1000pts, I have 3 possible lists. My aim is to look for balance, allowing me to have a 2 or 3 condensed detachments (not list building detachments) to control various areas of the board.

If appreciate advice on the lists, general tactical goals and pretty much anything important that may be worth knowing. (I have read the rules and I'm pretty familiar with the concepts)

So here we go...

List 1...

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [53 PL, 5CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Stratagems +

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 245pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Heavy Venom Cannon, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Warlord, Wings

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [6 PL, 112pts]: Adrenal Glands
. 16x Hormagaunt: 16x Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 86pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dynamic Camouflage
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Scything Talons, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Tyrant Guard [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Tyrant Guard (Crushing): 3x Crushing Claws, 3x Rending Claws

+ Heavy Support +

Mawloc [6 PL, 130pts]: Adrenal Glands, Toxinspike
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size

++ Total: [53 PL, 5CP, 1,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Aim to keep the Mawloc to pop up and inconvenience long ranged enemies and charge the rest.

List 2...

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [51 PL, 4CP, 996pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ Stratagems +

Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 240pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Power: Onslaught, Power: Paroxysm, The Miasma Cannon, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Tervigon [13 PL, 225pts]: Adrenal Glands, Chameleonic Mutation, Massive Crushing Claws, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Warlord
. Adaptive Physiology: Dermic Symbiosis

+ Troops +

Genestealers [12 PL, 225pts]: 3x Acid Maw
. 15x Genestealer: 15x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [6 PL, 140pts]: Adrenal Glands
. 20x Hormagaunt: 20x Scything Talons

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 92pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Dynamic Camouflage
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior: Devourer, Rending Claws
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Rending Claws, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

++ Total: [51 PL, 4CP, 996pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Aim: flyrant to hassle flanks, tervigon to sit slightly back and in cover to pump out Gants to then head out to objectives

List 3...

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [54 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ Stratagems +

Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 125pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 240pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Pathogenesis, Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings

Neurothrope [4 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Warlord

+ Troops +

Genestealers [12 PL, 180pts]: 3x Acid Maw
. 12x Genestealer: 12x Rending Claws

Ripper Swarms [4 PL, 48pts]
. 4x Ripper Swarm: 4x Claws and Teeth

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 95pts]
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Zoanthropes [8 PL, 180pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite
. 4x Zoanthrope: 4x Claws and Teeth

++ Total: [54 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Aim... More phsycic power to back up the front line.

[No One]

With list 2, new units cost reinforcement points. Terv's not great in general, and terrible in that list.

List 1: mawloc can't charge when it shows up. It's a very minor inconvenience. If you want to harass tanks in combat, use gaunts or give your flyrant rending claws (MRC) instead of devs or venom cannon.

Also don't like the adapt on a 3 man warrior unit. Probably like list 3 the best?

[twistedmagpie]

Would it be worth swapping out the warriors for a larger unit, like hormagaunts? It's less shooting bit more bodies to hold an objective?

[gribblybaby]

I don’t think the mini warrior squad is gonna do much, Id take some rippers and buff up another troop choice numbers in all cases. Also Devourers on warriors just made me sad. Either than or drop one of the other troop choices and buff up your warriors.

Tyrant Guard are pointless with winged tyrants, they’re soo much slower, they’ll never keep up.

List 3 is probably the strongest. But enhanced resistance isn’t achieving anything on a broodlord.

In fact I’d drop the Broodlord, take a prime, drop the rippers, get some more warriors and maybe a couple more stealers. Enhanced resistance of 6 or 7 warriors is way better than on a Broodlord.

[twistedmagpie]

Hmmm...ok, I was including the broodlord to increase the stealers combat ability. As it looks like his only purpose I thought it would be a sensible choice.

Are you saying that warriors are better used in combat than as behind the line close range shooting (and backup infantry)

So does this look a better plan..

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [50 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Stratagems +

Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 240pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, The Venomthorn Parasite, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Voracious Ammunition

Neurothrope [4 PL, 95pts]: Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Resonance Barb, Warlord

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer: 16x Rending Claws

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 208pts]: Flesh Hooks
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

Zoanthropes [8 PL, 180pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite
. 4x Zoanthrope: 4x Claws and Teeth

++ Total: [50 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[gribblybaby]

The Broodlord certainly does that, but enhanced resistance means that you’re immune to -1 and -2 AP. Broodlord has an invuln save which ignores AP, so pointless.

And to get value out of a Broodlord is more difficult that it is to get value out of a prime. Broodlords costs more points, tend to die faster and are more likely to over extend. They’re really good if you get them to work but that isn’t easy.

Warriors are good for holding the mid field.

What are the lictors for, out of interest?

[twistedmagpie]

The Lictor is simply to try it out because the model looks great and it looks like a cheap distraction... Pop him out on the first turn at an enemy back liner, even if he doesn't kill anything he could chip a wound or two and hold up a key model while the opponent moves up with everything else.

For the record, I've gone out that this is what I'm up against...


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [46 PL, 5CP, 1,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Primaris Captain (Indomitus) [5 PL, 105pts]: Paragon of Fury, Warlord

Primaris Chaplain [4 PL, -1CP, 85pts]: 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate, Fortress of Resolve, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Master of Sanctity

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Plasma Pistol

Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Plasma Pistol

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [5 PL, 105pts]: Bladeguard Veteran Sgt
. 2x Bladeguard Veteran: 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Master-crafted Power Sword, 2x Storm Shield

Judiciar [4 PL, 85pts]

Redemptor Dreadnought [7 PL, 185pts]: 2x Fragstorm Grenade Launchers, Heavy flamer, Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Icarus Rocket Pod

+ Fast Attack +

Outrider Squad [6 PL, 135pts]: Outrider Sgt
. 2x Outrider: 2x Astartes Chainsword, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 2x Twin Bolt rifle

++ Total: [46 PL, 5CP, 1,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[No One]

twistedmagpie said:

The Lictor is simply to try it out because the model looks great and it looks like a cheap distraction... Pop him out on the first turn at an enemy back liner, even if he doesn't kill anything he could chip a wound or two and hold up a key model while the opponent moves up with everything else.

Lictor can't show up from DS T1. Also, he'll probably just fail the charge and get trivially picked up by whatever's in range. That said, probably not exactly bad for secondary stuff depending on what you're taking.

[twistedmagpie]

I don't understand why not? It seems to me that only Strategic Reserves are restricted to not coming in on the first turn.
As far as the rules appear to me those are only additional units you choose to keep back (i.e those that don't have their own rules to be reserved)

[twistedmagpie]

Do you think my last iteration of list would be any good against the army my friend is bringing?

Any advice on tactics

[No One]

twistedmagpie said:

I don't understand why not? It seems to me that only Strategic Reserves are restricted to not coming in on the first turn.

In Eternal War missions, Strategic Reserve and
Reinforcement units can never arrive on the
battlefield in the first battle round.

DS is reinforcements.

On your/his list: a bit out of touch on the new stuff. But as to tactics...get charges off first and take out whole units to prevent angels backswing: it hurts even before getting dedicated melee primaris... You'll struggle to survive counter charge (or any charge) with the stealers. Warriors should be fine as long as you avoid the redemptor (dunno what you do about that: flyrant slap fight while you smite it to death? Or ignore it and kill the rest while scoring, pretty bog standard tactic).

[twistedmagpie]

Should I cut the stealers completely. The points could be used got a huge number of hormagaunts but I don't see them hitting as hard.

Are the psykers going to be worth it or should I drop them for more combat orientated units.

I have a carnifex I could include or a combat hive tyrant

[twistedmagpie]

Someone like this...


++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [49 PL, 5CP, 998pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Stratagems +

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 240pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Smite, The Venomthorn Parasite, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
. Adaptive Physiology: Voracious Ammunition

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Monstrous Boneswords, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Warlord
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size

+ Troops +

Genestealers [12 PL, 225pts]: 3x Acid Maw
. 15x Genestealer: 15x Rending Claws

Tyranid Warriors [9 PL, 196pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Devourer
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Lictor [2 PL, 37pts]: Flesh Hooks, Rending Claws

+ Heavy Support +

Carnifexes [6 PL, 110pts]
. Carnifex: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Monstrous Acid Maw, Thresher Scythe

++ Total: [49 PL, 5CP, 998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[twistedmagpie]

So this is the list I played in the end...


++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Tyranids) [50 PL, 4CP, 997pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 2. Incursion (51-100 Total PL / 501-1000 Points)

Detachment CP

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ Stratagems +

Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact

Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 220pts]: Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Rending Claws, Power: Onslaught, Power: Psychic Scream, The Venomthorn Parasite, Wings

Hive Tyrant [9 PL, 190pts]: Lash Whip and Monstrous Bonesword, Monstrous Boneswords, Power: Catalyst, Power: Smite, Power: Synaptic Lure, Resonance Barb, Warlord
. Adaptive Physiology: Murderous Size

+ Troops +

Genestealers [12 PL, 210pts]: 3x Acid Maw
. 14x Genestealer: 14x Rending Claws

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 102pts]: Adrenal Glands
. Adaptive Physiology: Enhanced Resistance
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior: Boneswords, Deathspitter
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon): Boneswords, Venom Cannon

+ Elites +

Hive Guard [7 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Carnifexes [6 PL, 125pts]
. Carnifex: 2x Monstrous Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Acid Maw, Spore Cysts, Thresher Scythe

++ Total: [50 PL, 4CP, 997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I found that even though the genestealer unit was smaller it was a magnet for my opponents attention and brought a good chunk of his forces down that flank.
The warrior unit was actually really useful even with only 3 models. They held the objective in my own deployment for 2 round before being taken out. Again though they were a very good cheap distraction and pulled in a fair few points in the meantime.

We had to finish early at the end of turn 3 but I won clearly 53/48.
All I had left was the 2 tyrants and carnifex. However they were pretty much on full HP and I only lost the hive guard because it was my first game and I totally missed the fact that I should put them on to of a building!
I'd cleared out his Dreadnaught, all intercessor units and his cleric. And his warlord was left on only 1 wound (very lucky too).

For my first game it was very fun and a great experience.

Thanks for the advice everyone.