Munitorum leaks on youtube (updated with all points Nid/GSC)

[pkripper]

Jul 13, 2020 14:16:51 GMT draaen said:

Oof my Toxicrenes went up the second most out of any model. That stings a lot! I guess they must really value always strike first cause he didn't again any advantage for shooting into combat. since he could already do it.

Hopefully the power level stays the same so he’s only 1cp for strategic reserves I’m still looking forward to giving him and the sporocyst a try.

[able]

Jul 13, 2020 20:21:15 GMT murderfiesta said:

If you're planning on running a gaunt carpet-type build without the Tervigon I think hormagaunts are probably the better choice than termagaunts at this point. 6 pts vs 5, but they're faster at 8" move and have the huge 6" pile-in and consolidate making them much better at bogging down the map, plus they have better stratagems to make them more dangerous (they can get an additional -1 AP) compared to Termagaunts with a +1 to-wound stratagem on Fleshborers. They also re-roll hits on 1s and re-roll wounds on 1s (when in units > 20) with two attacks each instead of just wounds on 1s on a single 12" shooting attack.

Toxin sacs didn't change in points, but they're now less expensive relative to the Hormagaunt body, an against T4-T7 Toxin Sacs increase their damage output by 50% and against T8+ they increase the damage output by 100%.

Hormagaunts increased in price by 20%, but even Intercessors went up by 17% so they're not necessarily out of pace with core Space Marine price increases.

So yeah, I think Hormagaunts may end up being one of the core troop choices for 'nids to lean on in 9th edition before any other price updates come out yet.

Gaunts are definitely far better in 9th, with the removal of overwatch and the ability to bad touch flyers, but 20% more expensive than gants is a big deal.

Toxin sacs on them are still DaF, and should not be more than 1 point. The problem is that an extra 50% of nothing is still nothing (even after carrying the nothing), and you can get most of that by getting more gaunts instead. That 33% extra you are paying makes them better against tanks, but it doesn't make them good. A full unit will be doing 7 wounds instead of 3.5, for the investment of 60 extra points with the stratagem. Gaunts are just not good at killing stuff, but TS are priced as though they are.

I definately agree that gaunts might see more play, but don't expect to see them suddenly turning into murder machines. They are there to pressure the opponent, and more gaunts are far more useful for that than more dangerous gaunts. For back line objective duties and screening duties the gants will probably stay.

[fleetofclaw]

I have t practiced with the new coherency rules but it sure seems like that will severely hamper gaunts 6” consolidation.

[Jizzy Jazz]

Jul 13, 2020 21:32:40 GMT able said:

Jul 13, 2020 20:21:15 GMT murderfiesta said:

If you're planning on running a gaunt carpet-type build without the Tervigon I think hormagaunts are probably the better choice than termagaunts at this point. 6 pts vs 5, but they're faster at 8" move and have the huge 6" pile-in and consolidate making them much better at bogging down the map, plus they have better stratagems to make them more dangerous (they can get an additional -1 AP) compared to Termagaunts with a +1 to-wound stratagem on Fleshborers. They also re-roll hits on 1s and re-roll wounds on 1s (when in units > 20) with two attacks each instead of just wounds on 1s on a single 12" shooting attack.

Toxin sacs didn't change in points, but they're now less expensive relative to the Hormagaunt body, an against T4-T7 Toxin Sacs increase their damage output by 50% and against T8+ they increase the damage output by 100%.

Hormagaunts increased in price by 20%, but even Intercessors went up by 17% so they're not necessarily out of pace with core Space Marine price increases.

So yeah, I think Hormagaunts may end up being one of the core troop choices for 'nids to lean on in 9th edition before any other price updates come out yet.

Gaunts are definitely far better in 9th, with the removal of overwatch and the ability to bad touch flyers, but 20% more expensive than gants is a big deal.

Toxin sacs on them are still DaF, and should not be more than 1 point. The problem is that an extra 50% of nothing is still nothing (even after carrying the nothing), and you can get most of that by getting more gaunts instead. That 33% extra you are paying makes them better against tanks, but it doesn't make them good. A full unit will be doing 7 wounds instead of 3.5, for the investment of 60 extra points with the stratagem. Gaunts are just not good at killing stuff, but TS are priced as though they are.

I definately agree that gaunts might see more play, but don't expect to see them suddenly turning into murder machines. They are there to pressure the opponent, and more gaunts are far more useful for that than more dangerous gaunts. For back line objective duties and screening duties the gants will probably stay.

With 60 hormagaunts sitting on my shelf, this makes me smile.

[murderfiesta]

Jul 13, 2020 21:32:40 GMT able said:

Gaunts are definitely far better in 9th, with the removal of overwatch and the ability to bad touch flyers, but 20% more expensive than gants is a big deal.

Toxin sacs on them are still DaF, and should not be more than 1 point. The problem is that an extra 50% of nothing is still nothing (even after carrying the nothing), and you can get most of that by getting more gaunts instead. That 33% extra you are paying makes them better against tanks, but it doesn't make them good. A full unit will be doing 7 wounds instead of 3.5, for the investment of 60 extra points with the stratagem. Gaunts are just not good at killing stuff, but TS are priced as though they are.

I definately agree that gaunts might see more play, but don't expect to see them suddenly turning into murder machines. They are there to pressure the opponent, and more gaunts are far more useful for that than more dangerous gaunts. For back line objective duties and screening duties the gants will probably stay.

Toxin Sacs would be something on Gaunts if you're going all in on the hormagaunts, I worded it poorly and made it seem like toxin sacs should be considered as an "always pick" option when they absolutely aren't.  When I say "all in," I'm talking 150+ gaunts with custom hive fleets to give them more AP.  They won't be murder machines, but there will be an absolute ton of them and they will have the tools to bring down even large targets from sheer numbers.

I understand that Hormagaunts are 20% more than Termagants, but if you're running 90 little gribblies there may be enough benefits to Hormagaunts for it to be worthwhile spending the extra points to swap one (or maybe even all the squads) to hormagaunts going from 450 pts to up to 540 pts if you swap all of them.

[topaxygourouni]

No. Toxin Sacs is not and will not be a thing. It takes the gaunt from 6 to 8ppm and to 9ppm if you consider the adrenal glands.

Do you know who else has 9ppm? A tzaangor, with Str 4, T4, 3+ Ws, 5++ save, flat ap-1 before shaneninanigans, free rerolls against characters, and his tricks allow it to teleport all over the place like a bawss.

When it comes to carpets, cheaper is better. 6ppm is hurting enough (a guardsman is still 5ppm).

The good thing about hormagaunts is that the tables are getting smaller which in turn makes the gaunts even faster. With the PA tricks for 3d6 or 4d6 charges and 6" pile in/consolidate, it is possible for the hormagaunts to be one of the very few units in this edition that can actually reliably multicharge and even maybe tri-point 2 units at the same time, at which point they have already paid for their points.

[michigo]

After thinking abit about the new battlefield sizes:
Yeah, our speed is great, but doesn't the change mean less speed suffices to get accros the board, aka making top level speed LESS important?

[topaxygourouni]

Jul 14, 2020 6:40:17 GMT michigo said:

After thinking abit about the new battlefield sizes:
Yeah, our speed is great, but doesn't the change mean less speed suffices to get accros the board, aka making top level speed LESS important?

Woaaa. Almost got a brain aneurism trying to decode that. No, not really. If the board went from 48" to 30" I would say yeah, sure, anything with 6" is now boss. But going from 48" to 44" is not THAT much of a difference for slower units, but it does close the cage around the enemy enough for fast stuff. If our hormas had X% chance to make a turn 2 charge, that chance became slightly bigger.