Advice to end my losing streak

[shirriandemon]

Good day Hive Mind,

I have been on an insane losing streak lately with my bugs. I usually play against black legion and catachan and I just can't do anything about the tanks (leman russ and Predators). I have tried using hive guard but for some reason even when running them Kronos I am lucky to get 2 hits with them.

I honestly have no idea what to do about vehicle heavy lists, any advice would be very appreciated Hive Mind

[Master Chief]

If simple tanks are the problem, go for more fast infantry (like Hormagaunts and Genestealers) and something to buff their resistance like Malanthrtopes or Venomthropes.

[brianb9999]

What else are you using? You may kill a tank here or there with Tyranid shooting, but you’ll never outshoot the guard. Typically you’ll win by getting your little bugs into combat with his tanks and just preventing them from firing.

This of course may all change once 9th drops, but this is how you currently fight guard.

[iniquity]

Im sure there’s lot of people in here who will ask for your list and give you very tailored advice. But from a kind of larger tactical point of view you have w couple of options.

Throw genestealers at them and “bad touch them” which involves trying to pile in to the tank after using the genestealers huge movement (normally with swarm lord) to get within an inch of them so they have to fall back and can’t shoot.

Hiding behind line of sight blocking terrain so key units can’t get shot.

Having so many bodies that the tanks really don’t have any efficient targets to shoot at.

Running lots of gun bugs and trying to out shoot them.

As for guard, they are quite susceptible to -1 to hit auras and powers.

[yoritomo]

Only 2 hits with 6 shots. Sounds more like a problem with your dice

It is widely accepted that the impaler cannon is the better choice for hive guard. The extra shot and extra strength provide a more favorable match up than the extra mortal wound from the shock cannon. Plus the ability to dodge return fire is worth its weight in gold.

The next question I have is what does your terrain look like? It sounds like they are getting shot off the board on the first turn or two. Put some LoS blocking terrain on the board and get your hive guard behind it. If you can make your opponent work to kill your hive guard it will provide opportunities to deal with their tanks in other ways (such as tar pitting them). If you can keep your hive guard alive then you should be able to deal with the tank over the course of several turns.

Also remember that we have the strat to double fire our hive guard. Abuse this! There are few things that we have that are better than shooting your unit of hive guard a second time. Especially if there are troublesome tanks of the field.

If all else fails you can up the size of your hive guard unit. 3 is okay, but 6 is noticeably better. Going up to 12 shots means that 9 should hit and 4 or 5 should wound (6 if it is a T7 tank). Yes, they will save a few of them, but even if you can bracket the tank it is a huge help. If your opponent is taking multiple tanks than upping the number of hive guard is a great investment.


If you'd like to go a non hive guard route, people have had a bit of success using Old One Eye and The Swarmlord to slingshot him into enemy vehicles. Add more carnifex for added fun.

[xsquidz]

Make sure you use the new Kronos on the hive guard as well so they get exploding 6's.

[shirriandemon]

May 31, 2020 16:29:53 GMT yoritomo said:

Only 2 hits with 6 shots. Sounds more like a problem with your dice

It is widely accepted that the impaler cannon is the better choice for hive guard. The extra shot and extra strength provide a more favorable match up than the extra mortal wound from the shock cannon. Plus the ability to dodge return fire is worth its weight in gold.

The next question I have is what does your terrain look like? It sounds like they are getting shot off the board on the first turn or two. Put some LoS blocking terrain on the board and get your hive guard behind it. If you can make your opponent work to kill your hive guard it will provide opportunities to deal with their tanks in other ways (such as tar pitting them). If you can keep your hive guard alive then you should be able to deal with the tank over the course of several turns.

Also remember that we have the strat to double fire our hive guard. Abuse this! There are few things that we have that are better than shooting your unit of hive guard a second time. Especially if there are troublesome tanks of the field.

If all else fails you can up the size of your hive guard unit. 3 is okay, but 6 is noticeably better. Going up to 12 shots means that 9 should hit and 4 or 5 should wound (6 if it is a T7 tank). Yes, they will save a few of them, but even if you can bracket the tank it is a huge help. If your opponent is taking multiple tanks than upping the number of hive guard is a great investment.


If you'd like to go a non hive guard route, people have had a bit of success using Old One Eye and The Swarmlord to slingshot him into enemy vehicles. Add more carnifex for added fun.

I appreciate the advice but I want to stay away from hive guard. You are right it sounds like a dice problem but I've changed dice multiple times around them because of all the amazing points you made around them. In all the time I have used them they have only ever killed one unit, and that was a 3 man guard heavy weapons team and I had to double fire strat to do so 🤣 I'm going to give the ol one eye bomb a shot. Thank you for the advice

[Master Chief]

On an average roll and without any psychic power or stratagem other than SMA, a full strength is not able to kill a Leman Russ...

To be honest I'd rather bring other things for dealing with tanks.

[purestrain]

Warriors with venom cannons and enhanced resistance. More bodies with less toughness but more wounds and can shoot at anything really thanks to bulk str 5.

A prime and a neuro can make them into murder machines and make them a very good candidate for SMA

[mrdodo]

What people already said and what in my experience (multiple people on my club play guard) works is slingshotting genestealers and surrounding tanks. Normally those tanks are surrounded by infantry. I bring at least 2 flying hive tyrants with devourers. Those 24 shots could be put to take out 1 infantry unit, but if you split the shots 50/50 you should be able to dent 2 units. 12 shots is like 5 dead guard? If you low roll you could use the other to make the hole bigger. Just think before you move where you can make the best hole in the line. just use your second swarm lord move after you found your approach so you can move the genestealers as close as possible.

Offcourse this works when you go first, but it is way harder when you don't have first turn. malanthrope helps with defense offcourse and there should be at least some place to hide your genestealers on a normal terrain table. I will not lie though, not having first turn or getting seized (for some reason this happens way more then 1/6 of the matches for me) is not great for nids.

I also have a lot of good effect with devilguants against guards (I put them in reserve with a unit of raveners with guns, I find the trygon or tyranocyte too expensive for delivery) that many shots shred through all their infantry.

Then the problem with the tanks (at least the t8 tanks) which are hard to crack with the nid firepower, so charging then with genestealers (yeah you wound on 6s, but you get a lot of attacks and every 6 gives no save) and surrounding is one of the few options. besides that swarmlord or old one eye charging in and offcourse the smites en psychic screams chipping away.

But its true, fighting lists with lot of t8, like knights and lists like 3 lord of skulls and 3 disco lords is pretty rough with our limited ways of dealing with them.

[swarm492]

How many hiveguard are you using? A full squad of 6 should really mess a tank up with 1 volley. Spend 2 cp to shoot them again.

[purestrain]

May 31, 2020 22:26:14 GMT swarm492 said:

How many hiveguard are you using? A full squad of 6 should really mess a tank up with 1 volley. Spend 2 cp to shoot them again.

Not on a russ or SHV. Their real ability is to combo bash a heavy with SMA or destroy apc/light tanks outright.

Even 12 shots 3+rerolling 1's is 9-10 hits? so 5-6 wounds and a 5+, will bash it but wont destroy, have to use SMA in order to get it, and only because d3 rolls are savage.

Better to use on apcs and let things like (if you have/want to utilize) cult mining lasers for heavy tank destruction. If you cant get that, a Fly/walkrant with a HVC/MRC and Max shots relic is a pretty dangerous tank hunter in its own right.

[Master Chief]

The huge problem is that 6 hive guards in a shooting phase cannot even kill a full rhino or equivalent so something else shoots at what disembarked from it...

[kazetanade]

Jun 1, 2020 7:35:32 GMT Master Chief said:

The huge problem is that 6 hive guards in a shooting phase cannot even kill a full rhino or equivalent so something else shoots at what disembarked from it...

6 HG in Kronos with exploding 6s Kronos spell:

12 shots. 8hits, 4misses. 2 rerolls, 1 hits. 2 additional hits. So total 11 hits. 3+ to wound 7-8W. Rhino's have 3+ so 5+ to save, 5-6 failsaves. That's on average a dead rhino.

OP wanted advice right? The first is to run a full squad of 6 HG. If you're doing 3 and not killing anything, but say you're not wanting to use any more, then why are you asking for advice? You go 6+(1 or more FULL squads) or none, period. 6 HG help me answer and handle triple Knight lists - if you can't handle basic tanks with them, you're playing them really wrong or you need more terrain on table.

Other than that, it's about recognising your win condition, even on tables with weak terrain. How does your army win the game? What is your game plan to work towards that? If you can't answer this, your army has no victory condition and is basically (table your enemy or pray). That's bad.

GO into more detail on why you are facing problems, and what have you tried so far. iniquity has recently come back from a similar trough and may be able to give you better insight into what's going on that's making the game so hard for you.