Null deployment, 8th edition style?

[brianb9999]

I was inspired after reading Mr Sneggy’s posts in the Lictor thread over on the general board, and came up with this list:

Kraken battalion

Swarmlord
Neurothrope

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers

Kraken battalion

Broodlord
Broodlord

3 rippers
3 rippers
3 rippers

Kronos vanguard

Neurothrope, warlord

6 hive guard, impalers
Lictor
Lictor

Exocrine

Tyrannocyte, deathspitters

1999 pts

So the list has 16 drops, 7 of which can deep strike (I’m not considering genestealers in nodes). Ideally, the hive guard would hide and the exo would pod in, but if terrain is sufficient I could just hide the exo and drop in the empty pod for secondaries/objective harassment. Rippers and lictors can drop in almost with impunity, and stealers could hide/hang back and use distance to their advantage, hence the “null” deploy title - giving very little for my opponent to shoot/charge. Rippers can be used to screen in a pinch. I’m looking at this list for ITC in particular, any thoughts?

[acehilator]

Imho currently is not the time to think about "serious" lists with 9E around the corner. We essentially need to see the complete ruleset for 9E before going forward. Gotta make sure there are no surprises hidden in the fine print, or to exploit tiny details hidden in the fine print to our advantage. Also need to wait for the complete list of point changes.

[brianb9999]

May 31, 2020 14:57:39 GMT acehilator said:

Imho currently is not the time to think about "serious" lists with 9E around the corner. We essentially need to see the complete ruleset for 9E before going forward. Gotta make sure there are no surprises hidden in the fine print, or to exploit tiny details hidden in the fine print to our advantage. Also need to wait for the complete list of point changes.

Valid points, but I have all the models and an event coming up next month. Just looking to get people’s input for ITC missions on weaknesses or bad matchups I haven’t thought about.

[acehilator]

Uhm, there is still a pandemic going on (and will be for at least a year), and people are playing tournaments? Unless you are living in New Zealand, you should stay the fukk home, lol.

[brianb9999]

May 31, 2020 16:35:22 GMT acehilator said:

Uhm, there is still a pandemic going on (and will be for at least a year), and people are playing tournaments? Unless you are living in New Zealand, you should stay the fukk home, lol.

Thank you for your concern, but we have started opening up where I live, and in fact had an RTT last week. I’m not here to discuss the pandemic, just looking for 40k advice. So if you have constructive criticism for my list, by all means fire away. If not, please keep any unrelated comments to yourself.

[sneggy]

May 30, 2020 18:18:16 GMT brianb9999 said:

I was inspired after reading Mr Sneggy’s posts in the Lictor thread over on the general board, and came up with this list:

Kraken battalion

Swarmlord
Neurothrope

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers

Kraken battalion

Broodlord
Broodlord

3 rippers
3 rippers
3 rippers

Kronos vanguard

Neurothrope, warlord

6 hive guard, impalers
Lictor
Lictor

Exocrine

Tyrannocyte, deathspitters

1999 pts

So the list has 16 drops, 7 of which can deep strike (I’m not considering genestealers in nodes). Ideally, the hive guard would hide and the exo would pod in, but if terrain is sufficient I could just hide the exo and drop in the empty pod for secondaries/objective harassment. Rippers and lictors can drop in almost with impunity, and stealers could hide/hang back and use distance to their advantage, hence the “null” deploy title - giving very little for my opponent to shoot/charge. Rippers can be used to screen in a pinch. I’m looking at this list for ITC in particular, any thoughts?

So pandemic comments aside (be safe out there folks but the world is a big place, some folks get to play, some don't. Be good to each other and be safe.)

You asked in the other thread what my list with the lictor vanguard is and it looks something like this (still tweaking so variations on this theme exist):

Kraken Battalion:
Swarmlord
Broodlord

2x20 Stealers
2x28 Hormagaunts

24 Gargoyles


Four armed emperor battalion:
Patriarch-familiar, Warlord
Magus

3x10 brood brothers


Kronos Vanguard:

Neurothrope

6 Hive Guard
2x lictors


So its built for ITC. You score sappers/recon/behind enemy lines (pick your two favourites) and then whichever kill you like. Worst case you born for greatness the broodlord/patriarch and go run around being a nuisance for 2/3pts.
It move blocks very well with its bodies and basically trades and uses threat ranges to hold the board and slow scoring after taking a big lead by maxing secondaries early. 
It'll fade late game but thats GSC/Nids right now.


change ups include losing the Gargoyles for an Exocrine as the simplest one.
In more complex changes I swap the whole kraken detachment for rock saw bomb gsc battalion and the hormagaunts become kronos termagant blobs. 

I'm trying a ton of stuff atm on TTS so lots of stuff to work with.

[brianb9999]

Thanks for the input, Sneggy. Most of the lists I’ve seen or tried use these Tyranid units with or without the GSC. Nids/GSC in the new ITC seems to be about scoring fast and holding the board as long as feasibly possible.

[kazetanade]

Nids/GSC has always been about that.

Few comments from me because I ran a Behemoth version of similar in Feb (CA instead of ITC though):

1. 3 Genestealers are very difficult to hide, and with reduced range on Kraken OA Sling combo, you might not reach - keep in mind this list works by threat ranges, meaning you make it difficult for him to go on objectives unless he's going to commit to killing you first.

2. You don't have a solid defense against Raven Guard, or against mass ignore LOS shooting. Most ignore LOS shooting is 48", Skorpius and Havoc Launchers being the exception, so game plan has to change if your meta has a lot to of these. I'm not expecting a lot of these in the marine meta though. RG needs some things to push them out so that 1: you don't lose it all to T1 mass bolters, 2: you don't lose it all to Centurions or Aggressors charging you suddenly. Centurions can still make it from deployment, Aggressors can start in your face. Since ITC you know who goes first who goes 2nd, yea.

3. Exocrene is fire and forget. He's unlikely to survive 2 turns. BUT , he is an extremely good candidate to sit there for BEL/Recon together with your pod, since he contributes threat. Exo + HG shelling will kill anything without a thick invul, or anything other than a Knight, very powerful pair of tools, giving you much easier time to score your kill obj. If you don't need your Exo on the ground(ie there isn't anything that you have to kill at absolutely any cost right at the beginning of the game, like Eldar planes), you can always afford to pod it, and I would always choose to pod it in that case.

4. HG keep the HG safe at any cost. They need to stay alive as long as possible because they're the game closer, your late game is assuredly much easier if they are still kicking in T4 at full unit, even if you don't get to double shoot.

Triple Genestealers are making a comeback supposedly so you're pretty set with a solid list to work with. Keep in mind for ITC the goals are always: delay enemy Secondaries, deny their Primaries, score fast score early and keep denying Primaries.

[brianb9999]

Jun 2, 2020 5:28:16 GMT kazetanade said:

1. 3 Genestealers are very difficult to hide, and with reduced range on Kraken OA Sling combo, you might not reach - keep in mind this list works by threat ranges, meaning you make it difficult for him to go on objectives unless he's going to commit to killing you first.

This list will rely very much on the speed of the stealers and their threat range. I may have to make some concessions if I don't go first vs a particularly aggressive list, but I can still make up a lot of ground with OA, Swarmlord, metabolic, etc.

Jun 2, 2020 5:28:16 GMT kazetanade said:

2. You don't have a solid defense against Raven Guard, or against mass ignore LOS shooting. Most ignore LOS shooting is 48", Skorpius and Havoc Launchers being the exception, so game plan has to change if your meta has a lot to of these. I'm not expecting a lot of these in the marine meta though. RG needs some things to push them out so that 1: you don't lose it all to T1 mass bolters, 2: you don't lose it all to Centurions or Aggressors charging you suddenly. Centurions can still make it from deployment, Aggressors can start in your face. Since ITC you know who goes first who goes 2nd, yea.

The RG matchup is honestly the one that has me the most concerned. I don't think there are many left in my personal meta, but I say that and I'll randomly face them 2/3 matchups . My theory for this list has been: can I accomplish with 99 pt of ripper swarms the same thing I'm trying with 60+ gaunt bodies at 300+ points? Furthermore, can I mitigate early damage to my stealers by simply keeping them in the back of my DZ and using my superior speed to bust out on the bottom of T1? There are a few armies in my meta that can clear an unbelievable amount of chaff which got me wondering...is it even necessary? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Master of Ambush + pregame move combo must leave the units (read: Aggressors) 9" from my models? So I would in theory screen the front of my DZ with all the rippers and keep the stealers at the back of my zone, as much out of bolter range if possible. Depending on what else he has in the list, the exocrine could just deploy middle back of my DZ and blast the Aggressors to another world on my turn should he send them up. Now I could easily be wrong about how far he can move turn 1 and blast a bunch of my army, which is a problem, and he may be reserving/hiding cents in addition, so yes, this is a tricky matchup to say the least.

Jun 2, 2020 5:28:16 GMT kazetanade said:

3. Exocrene is fire and forget. He's unlikely to survive 2 turns. BUT , he is an extremely good candidate to sit there for BEL/Recon together with your pod, since he contributes threat. Exo + HG shelling will kill anything without a thick invul, or anything other than a Knight, very powerful pair of tools, giving you much easier time to score your kill obj. If you don't need your Exo on the ground(ie there isn't anything that you have to kill at absolutely any cost right at the beginning of the game, like Eldar planes), you can always afford to pod it, and I would always choose to pod it in that case.

This is pretty much my plan. The beautiful thing is though, is that the HG can pod if I need them to (not sure what matchup it would be, but I can still do it). Or I deploy both units, as in the above RG matchup and just bring in the pod as an objective scorer (can help for both primary and secondary).

[kazetanade]

I might be misremembering because this was theoretical discussions, but:

T1 deploy on the line. RG codex strategem to move+advance up before game starts. Chaplain gets a + modifier to advance and charge and rerollable advance (cant remember), WLT that gives advance and charge and rerollable charge. So essentially you're getting 2x Move + Advance from the deployment edge with a +2 or +4 modifier, with a +2 to charge range and a rerollable charge somewhere. The Aggressors just start in your face on T1, or can be made to Deepstrike with a strategem if going Turn 2.

Rippers placed on your deployment edge will screen out the starting in your face... except they get to move, and shoot, and charge. So they'll get 5" movement (before advancing shenanigans which adds another 3"), 18" gun so your distance must be at least 14-17" deep from your frontline screen. So in short answer yea, maximizing your space in deployment from front to back in any map other than Dawn Of War type maps you'll be able to save your GS, assuming he has no wyvern esq. troop killer artilleries. Note also that RG are not forced to charge into you - it's just that they have the option if it will cause havoc. They're mostly perfectly happy sitting on the midfield objecitves and terrain, esp Centurions. They basically play like what your GS do, but way tankier.


As for the rest of it - yea I think the list is pretty solid, you just need to be able to push back in case of an aggressive or mirror list. Having central LOS blocker for the HG and SL will be pretty key. And yes, you can swap the HG/Exo pod if there is a marked diff (a lot of elite infantry killing, but not good at killing T8 tanks).

Good luck and make us proud!

[brianb9999]

Unless of course I decide to go with my gaunt carpet, this could all go out the window. Likely last 8th ed event for all I know! Either way, hoping for some victories.