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Post by flashking0 on May 24, 2020 12:32:54 GMT
This is my List. Sadly I can't change it anymore and in hindsight i should have taken 6 hiveguard, but my models were conversions so i couldnt take 3 with me  So i was looking at my opponents Lists and I dont know how win against it so I need help from you guys gonna post the opponents list after mine  ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [82 PL, -1CP, 1,303pts] +++ Configuration +Hive Fleet: Kraken + Stratagems +Progeny of the Hive [-1CP]+ HQ +Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]: Power: The Horror Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 218pts]: Chameleonic Mutation, Power: Synaptic Lure, Power: The Horror, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Synaptic Lure + Troops +Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . Adaptive Physiology: Dynamic Camouflage . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]: 5x Acid Maw, 20x Scything Talons . 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [35 PL, -1CP, 695pts] +++ Configuration +Hive Fleet: Kronos + Stratagems +Bounty of the Hive Fleet [-1CP]: 1 Extra Bio-artefact + HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 218pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Power: Symbiostorm, Resonance Barb, 2x Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings . Adaptive Physiology: Voracious Ammunition Malanthropes [5 PL, 120pts]. Malanthrope Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]: Power: Catalyst + Troops +Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 39pts]: Spinemaws . 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]. 3x Ripper Swarm: 3x Claws and Teeth + Elites +Hive Guard [7 PL, 129pts]. 3x Hive Guard (Impaler): 3x Impaler Cannon ++ Total: [117 PL, -2CP, 1,998pts] ++And this is one of my tough opponents im gonna play against and I have no idea what to do ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [44 PL, 667pts] +++ Configuration +CHAPTER: Blood Angels + HQ +Captain [6 PL, 143pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer Chief Librarian Mephiston (Primaris) [8 PL, 145pts]+ Troops +Scout Squad [4 PL, 57pts]. Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]. Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun Scout Squad [4 PL, 57pts]. Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout: Boltgun . Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter + Elites +Death Company [18 PL, 210pts]: Jump Pack . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword . Death Company Marine. . Bolt pistol and chainsword ++ Auxiliary Support Detachment -1CP (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [5 PL, 95pts] +++ Elites +Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 95pts]++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [65 PL, 1,238pts] +++ Configuration +Household Choice: Questor Imperialis . House Terryn + Lord of War +Knight Crusader [25 PL, 494pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heavy Stubber, Ironstorm Missile Pod, Warlord . Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer . Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber: Heavy Stubber, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon Knight Gallant [20 PL, 372pts]: Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet Knight Gallant [20 PL, 372pts]: Heavy Stubber, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet ++ Total: [114 PL, 2,000pts] ++ |
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Post by afewveiws on May 24, 2020 15:55:21 GMT
I personally would drop the kronos flyrant entirely and give the kraken flyrant the adaptation.
With those points freed up you could let go of the 4th ripper swarm and bring OOE. Give swarmy onslaught instead of synaptic lure, and now you have a reliable knight killer. Get anything into melee with a knight and then through ooe at it and 9 out of 10 times the knight is dead. In the 1 out of 10 situation, pop fight after death and take it with him.
Swarmy can also kill a knight but not as reliably.
This will over all make your list more flexable, but when you have multiple knights to kill, be prepared to blow almost all of your cammand points on keeping ooe alive.
Once the knights are dead you only have to deal with some scouts, a smash captain, and a shock troop unit.
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Post by beetlejuice on May 24, 2020 18:51:57 GMT
If your list is already locked in and can’t make changes suggested above then you are in trouble. What format are you playing? Dont expect to kill the knights (weight of dice from multiple smites, devourers, GS and fight twice swarmlord with reroll wounds strat will probably kill one but not 3). Imo you need to outscore before getting tabled. Your strategy therefor depends on format.
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Post by flashking0 on May 24, 2020 20:30:33 GMT
beetlejuice afewveiws Thanks for the nice tips and unfortunately i cant change the list anymore and am looking for strats since that is gonna be my first opponent in the tournament and we are playing the newest ITC Missions. Im kinda having trouble with picking Secondaries and a General Gameplan Hope you guys can help Gonna post list of other opponents, tomorrow after they announce them
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Post by beetlejuice on May 24, 2020 22:48:40 GMT
I dont play ITC so can’t help much. You have a LOT of mobility with GS, hive commander, opportunistic advance, metabolic overdrive, overrun so I would probably play to that. Use GS (and maybe Hive guard if you’re not trying to kill a knight) to eat his infantry and then play around knights with your mobility and obs sec from troops advantage, you have quite a few more bodies (unless DC shreds them first and knights get to start stomping). If he only has knights left to score I think you can stay ahead, once the infantry is gone there is no screen to protect mephiston and of you kill him you can dominate psychic phase freely. Keep something around to counter charge the smash cap, he will inevitbly kill something, just force it into something that’s not vital. Pathogenic slime on stationary kronos dakkarant with symbiostorm or caustic blood on 20 GS (without catalyst) could help out in a pinch to put some wounds on a knight. With that many GS you should get feeder tendrils off to farm some more CP if you set up kills accordingly. Use terrain to your advantage and in the end just run and hide those rippers for extra VP  |
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Post by No One on May 25, 2020 1:26:54 GMT
General gameplan would be to mulch the infantry, move block the knights, and outscore them early with hold more+bonus and try and deny their secondaries/hold (but that's probably not realistic). You probably want to go 2nd to make sure you get hold more, but...it might be better to not get mulched by DC...not sure on that one. Might depend on terrain if you think you can just hide on objectives and live through a shooting phase and keep hold more.
You might be able to chip down the knights with hive guard+psychic, Swarmlord with 3++ and rerolls should be able to tangle with the crusader pretty well (or the gallants if you feel lucky), fight twice as well. Similarly broodlord+fight on death for a worse smash cap. But you're not going to kill all 3: kill the worst one (crusader) or the easiest (whatever gallant ends up eating the most smites).
Secondaries...probably recon and engineers (though map dependant) or something else you feel you can score easily with the rippers. Maybe postman mal??? Then probably titanslayer: not sure if you can max it, but it's going to be one of the easier ones to get some points in, and probably the easiest to max as well. Either that or maybe headhunter are probably your only real choices.
As to list...there's a few things to change for later. The biggest thing is the mal: it's protecting a dakkaflyrant (meh) and a 3 man hive guard unit (also meh). It's a wasted 120 pts. Otherwise, as afeviews said. But also, I don't know why you have 2 dakkaflyrants (they don't really do much for >200 points), and Behemoth would be something to consider instead of Kraken: gives you +1 to wound and super flyrant as answers to knights or other tough targets.
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Post by flashking0 on May 25, 2020 11:06:01 GMT
Thanks guys i appreciate the help a lot
so today my 2nd opponent in the Tournament was announced
Here is the list
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [74 PL, 10CP, 1,201pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Legion: Black Legion
+ HQ +
Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 2CP, 210pts]: Warlord
Sorcerer [6 PL, 88pts]: Bolt pistol, Force stave, Mark of Slaanesh
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 55pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 55pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 55pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
+ Elites +
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 138pts]: 2x Butcher cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 138pts]: 2x Butcher cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 138pts]: 2x Butcher cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
+ Heavy Support +
Havocs [7 PL, 172pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Lascannon
Havocs [7 PL, 152pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 4x Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Reaper chaincannon
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [47 PL, 5CP, 798pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Detachment CP [5CP]
Legion: Black Legion
+ HQ +
Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 170pts]: Baleflamer, No Chaos Mark
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector
Master of Possession [5 PL, 88pts]: Force stave, No Chaos Mark
+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun: 9x Autogun
. Cultist Champion: Autogun
+ Heavy Support +
Forgefiend [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Ectoplasma cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
Forgefiend [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Ectoplasma cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
Forgefiend [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Hades autocannons, Ectoplasma cannon, Mark of Slaanesh
++ Total: [121 PL, 15CP, 1,999pts] ++
So i would like to discuss battle strategies with you guys again since you have been really helpful so far and im really gratefull
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Post by flashking0 on May 25, 2020 11:10:03 GMT
General gameplan would be to mulch the infantry, move block the knights, and outscore them early with hold more+bonus and try and deny their secondaries/hold (but that's probably not realistic). You probably want to go 2nd to make sure you get hold more, but...it might be better to not get mulched by DC...not sure on that one. Might depend on terrain if you think you can just hide on objectives and live through a shooting phase and keep hold more. You might be able to chip down the knights with hive guard+psychic, Swarmlord with 3++ and rerolls should be able to tangle with the crusader pretty well (or the gallants if you feel lucky), fight twice as well. Similarly broodlord+fight on death for a worse smash cap. But you're not going to kill all 3: kill the worst one (crusader) or the easiest (whatever gallant ends up eating the most smites). Secondaries...probably recon and engineers (though map dependant) or something else you feel you can score easily with the rippers. Maybe postman mal??? Then probably titanslayer: not sure if you can max it, but it's going to be one of the easier ones to get some points in, and probably the easiest to max as well. Either that or maybe headhunter are probably your only real choices. As to list...there's a few things to change for later. The biggest thing is the mal: it's protecting a dakkaflyrant (meh) and a 3 man hive guard unit (also meh). It's a wasted 120 pts. Otherwise, as afeviews said. But also, I don't know why you have 2 dakkaflyrants (they don't really do much for >200 points), and Behemoth would be something to consider instead of Kraken: gives you +1 to wound and super flyrant as answers to knights or other tough targets. The reason my list is a little weird is that i wasnt allowed to use some of my models since they are conversions and I had to fill 2000 points. I put 2 dakkatyrants is becuase i though i need more shooting but i see the problem now. |
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Post by No One on May 25, 2020 12:10:04 GMT
Looks a lot more manageable: it's a list with 2 dangerous cc models, but apart from that it's all touchable/hostageable shooting, with a handful of chaff that your flyrants should mop up fairly easily.
You could probably play it 1 of 2 ways: either very safe, stealers just hostage and kill what they need, avoid the combat guys as much as possible and don't touch anything unneeded. Swarmlord hides, flyrants...probably die horribly because they can't hide (probably DS them). Just whittle down and score as much as possible, then go all in mid/late game to try and keep the pressure on and your opponent off objectives. You'll probably get murdered, but you should be able to win fairly reliably I think (though I won't call this guaranteed, even assuming nothing unexpected happens: I don't have a good enough handle on ITC scoring to know for sure).
The alternative is to just rush him: super aggressive with the stealers, touch as much as possible, score with backline while flyrants clean up infantry. Repeat until Swarmlord can get in there and handle Abaddon or disco lord (hopefully hive guard+smites+odd damage here and there have handled the other). A lot riskier, since if you can't get all the touches you might lose Swarmlord and you're not going to win in cc without him, and taking that many retaliation hits on stealers is going to result in mass losses: again, might just result in getting shot to pieces because things aren't in combat.
Depending on terrain, you might be able to do something between the 2, where you still advance up, but don't need to go super aggressive and can use terrain to void the rest of the damage.
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Post by kazetanade on May 30, 2020 12:17:27 GMT
In all honesty, 2nd game is gonna be tough - check if Butcher Cannons are 36" or 48", if they're 36" you can afford to start 2nd and start extremely safe and stay out of range, keep Swarmy hidden no matter what, in your turn you can shoot one up a turn to run havoc on exposed elements. If they're 48" then you need to go first, and push your entire army into his line and land your charges on at least 70% of his guns and brawl hard. He's pure Black Legion which means he doesn't have the scariest recovery or shooting output, so tying up a majority will help a lot. If he sees your super offensive setup and plays chicken, you take first turn and move everything backwards to confirm it will be out of move + shoot range, and buy time while scoring safe objectives.
For secondaries you are kind of forced to play around BEL/Recon. If you take KotH you are dead. Kill Obj BGH is the best one here but you aren't equipped to kill big things well, so it'll end up trapping yourself, but since new ITC forces you to take 1 kill obj you might not have a choice, so keep SL safe until he can make combat.
Your best chance to win is to deny kilsl to him, force him to send maulerfiends and Discolords out to grab objectives, then send a GS unit up to steal and contest those objectives. He'll play kill objectives, so if you play BEL/Recon and burst score them while denying him kills, you can outscore him and win the game by a slim margin.
Whatever happens, don't let him shoot a majority of his guns for as long as possible. Mass touches on Deredeos are usually fine, stay away from the Maulerfiends and Abaddon, in the turn you can get the touches you move SL up as well to form incoming threat. Pair with the dakkaflyrants to kill/tie up marines/chip Abaddon and Disco with multiple smites.
Edit: quick corrections. Forgefiends aren't maulerfiends, their combat is not scary. Conversely, Comtemptors aren't Deredeos, their melee is much scarier (and 4++). Butchers are 36" only. Start safe if he's going first, start aggressive if you go first, mass touch early if you can land most of the guns, okay safe if not, Touch Forgefiends/marines with Genestealers, dakkaflyrants Smite Disco/Abaddon to death and touch contemptor, SL runs around mucking anything and everything after killing Abaddon and Disco, whatever you have left just trying to score those BEL/Recon/BGH points.
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