An idea for blasts.

[infornography]

This thread is intended to just poke at an idea to slightly speed up gameplay and possibly improve the way one aspect of the game works. I know it will likely never be a part of the rules set, but every once in a while it is fun to poke around at the rules to see what might be done better.

The way Blasts worked before 8th ed was a circular template and scatter dice with BS subtracted from the distance. For some units this was all but guaranteed to get at least hit something, for others it was a gamble. Now in 8th ed we roll a die to determine how many additional die we roll to see how many hits we get. This slows things down slightly, but noticeably, relative to flamer template style weapons and straight number of shot guns. I think I have an idea how this might be done better that reflects how the rules used to work without needing the additional template and die.

Instead of getting 1d6 attacks, how about getting a number of automatic hits subtracted by a die roll and the unit's ballistic skill.

For example, say you have a gun that gets 1d6 hit rolls now. For a straight modification change it to 9 auto hits subtracted by 1d6 and your BS. If your BS is 3+ and you rolled a 3 then you would get 3 auto hits (9-3 for the die roll-3 for the BS). If you rolled a 1 (best possibility) then you would get 9-1-3=5 auto hits. If you rolled a 6 then you would get 9-6-3=0 so a BS3 could still miss entirely which I think is part of the idea.

You could also modify this to approximate the current d3 hit rolls by dividing the result by 2 rounding down.

This removes an entire layer to the shooting phase which spread out over every unit with a blast style weapon times the number of turns it shoots can add up. It also improves the consistency of these weapons so they aren't quite so boom or bust.

So what say you? Does this sound like a good idea? Do you hate it? Remember, this is just a gamecrafting exercise not intended to be any kind of demand of change.

[LordPathos]

I don't think the idea of starting at a base number and subtracting is specifically bad. I always thought that the full randomness of template weapons now was a bad way of doing it. Even when we were using the flamer templates, we could still hit a minimum of 3 or 4 models, no matter how the models were spaced. But now our minimum is one (or two on a 2d6). I thought something along the lines of a set number + a dice roll would have been a better approach. Like a regular flamer would be 2+d6. Min of 3, max of 8 doesn't sound that far off to what we had before.

As for straight blast templates, that's a different monster all together. Scatter dice, while it made some sense, was just awful. I had a Zoanthrope warp blast my own Swarmlord (killing it) once while aiming at Necron scarabs because of a really high scatter. MIND BULLETS AND BRAIN KAMEHAMEHAS DO NOT SWERVE!

[infornography]

You can get the same results with addition I suppose if you start with a negative number and add things up.

So working backwards from what I posted before, you will have to reverse the BS so 6-BS will be added to a die roll and the starting number. To get the same results you would have to start with -5. That means with BS3 you would add 4 and then a 1 for a minimum die roll giving you the 0 possibility. -5+4+6 would give you 5 hits with BS3 and a die roll of 6. The question would just be, which is more awkward, subtracting the numbers from the start or having to reverse your BS before adding up.

For templates, the game is balanced around 1d6 now, if you make it 3-8 a lot of points values would have to change, but I think you could narrow the range substantially by starting at 2 and adding d3 and a bonus hit on a 6. That would give you 3-6 with 3 and 4 being the most likely results. This is slightly better than current because it raises the minimum roll by 2 without affecting the maximum roll. A slight points correction may be needed on some weapons, but template style weapons don't seem to be all that favored at the moment so maybe a buff to the way hits are calculated would make the more competitive.

[LordPathos]

Maybe 9th will change things for the better.

[beetlejuice]

This still doesn’t fix the problem that flamer-type weapons are awesome vs single models. Blast/flamers should score extra hits to a big unit, not possibly 6 hits to a single model. I’d prefer 2 or d3 extra hits vs 5 models, 3 or d6 vs 10 or more. Double it on especially powerful weapons, or maybe give 2 wound rolls for every hit (but not on auto hit weapons) to simulate powerful blasts with shrapnel coming from everywhere.

[infornography]

See, I always saw these weapons being more effective now against single targets as a feature rather than a bug of 8th edition.

A lot of guns like the Heavy Venom Cannon and Plasma Cannon struggled to find a role in prior editions. There were not a lot of great targets for them because their profile was tuned for single targets, but they were blasts so they were not great at it. Single targets with enough wounds for the multiple hits to matter are generally larger and it makes sense that they would take more of a hit from an area effect weapon.

With 9th ed giving a bonus to targeting hordes with blasts, that is a step in the right direction, and I am reservedly optimistic overall that they will get it more right than wrong, but I have no expectation that they won't overlook some things and have some missteps along the way.

[Kyokii]

Maybe give them a number of shots based on the number of models in the unit to a maximum value. 4 for blast, 6 for flamer, 8 for large blast. Throwing numbers out as an example, but it gives them a role based on damage rather than just weapon type. Battle cannons would be scary against elites and hordes alike while still having bite against tanks.
Flamers would be less effec I've against armor, still good against infantry, middling against elite units like termies.
To be more complicated (needlessly so) make it a set number of shots with, possibly, a random damage value and give it the AoS/
Plague flail treatment of excess wounds spill over the unit. This would be awful on failed saves, though.