Returning player - 2k competitive?

[ralphinator]

I'm interested in beginning a genestealer cult and returning to 40k. I'm trying to map out a good list to build towards in order to avoid previous mistakes when collecting armies. Any insight into whether this is a viable list or, if not, how it should be tweaked?


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [46 PL, 2CP, 823pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ Stratagems +

Broodcoven [-1CP]

Grandsire's Gifts [-3CP]: 2 Extra Sacred Relics

Specialist Detachment: Deliverance Broodsurge [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, -1CP, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Stratagem: Field Commander, Warlord Trait: Augur of the Insurgent

Primus [4 PL, 75pts]: Bonesword, Broodcoven Primus, Warlord Trait: Alien Majesty

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 190pts]: Cult Icon
. 15x Acolyte Hybrid: 15x Autopistol, 15x Blasting Charges, 15x Cultist Knife, 15x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 200pts]: Cult Icon
. 14x Acolyte Hybrid: 14x Autopistol, 14x Blasting Charges, 14x Cultist Knife, 14x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 200pts]: Cult Icon
. 14x Acolyte Hybrid: 14x Autopistol, 14x Blasting Charges, 14x Cultist Knife, 14x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

+ Elites +

Clamavus [3 PL, 55pts]

Nexos [3 PL, 50pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [29 PL, 5CP, 467pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Magus [5 PL, 92pts]: Broodcoven Magus, Familiar, The Crouchling, Warlord Trait: Inscrutable Cunning

Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]: Amulet of the Voidwyrm

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 170pts]: Cult Icon
. 19x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 19x Blasting Charges, 19x Cultist Knife, 19x Hand Flamer, 19x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: Brood Brothers Leader
. 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: Brood Brothers Leader
. 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [37 PL, 5CP, 710pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cult Creed: The Bladed Cog

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]: Warlord, Warlord Trait: Single-minded Obsession

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [3 PL, 75pts]

Sanctus [3 PL, 60pts]: Silencer Sniper Rifle

++ Total: [112 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[kazetanade]

www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-genestealer-cults-tactics/

Instead of asking for fragmented advice, read the above link. It's very comprehensive, and even sheds light on some new ideas for veteran players like myself.

If you are really only interested in the quick and dirty, your list combines two aspects of GSC's strong infantry niches, but is lacking the 50% on the board part of the problem that plagues all GSC players. I'm counting off the top of my head but I cant equal the number of units, although points is feasible. Boils down to, you dont have enough board start presence.

[ralphinator]

Thanks for the reply! I actually have read through that document, as well as a few others and found it very helpful. As far as I understand I should be able to "set up" the three rocksaw acolyte broods and then use They Came From Below to game the 50% rule.

This list is mainly where I landed after quite a few rough drafts. I was considering removing the cult icon from the flamer acolytes and giving a fifth rocksaw to the other acolytes, evening them out.

I decided to skip the hivecult ridgerunner combo to instead go for infantry swam, hopefully making anti tank weapons less worthwhile.

My other possible option would be taking grenade launchers for the neophytes instead of webbers, adding a squad of them and brood brothers to cut a squad of rocksaw acolytes. Although the acolytes are a core of the army I have worries about finding room to effectively deepstrike them all, especially within their respective modifier bubbles.

[kazetanade]

The "anti-tank weapon" argument I think is outdated - how many people actually face hordes of Lascannon shots? I more often than not get faced up against medium damage but high volume shooting rather than just Lascannons - except for specific circumstances. Like Repulsor Executioners (that also have a lot of anti-infantry so that's a moot point).

I think for the deepstriking, I used to deepstrike 2-1, 1-2, or 1-2-1(RTTS the first one) depending on how safe I can keep them on the drop. 2 can be deepstruck safely, although you many not get all the targets you want. Having 1 unit that can suicide at the back is pretty good too.

GLs are pretty bad compared to Webbers - Webbers are really good because of how cheap they are and the fact they're 16" and they're d3 autohits at S4. GLs have more range, but inferior profiles and damage, while costing way more.

On Table
2x BB
1x Sanctus
3x Saw Acolytes
1x Magus
1x Jackal
1x Patty
1x Nexo

In DS
1x Aco
5x Neo
1x Kelly
1x Primus
1x Iconward
1x Patty
1x Clammy

So you're 1 unit short of equal on balancing, with 4 guys going back into DS via TCFB and RTTS, should be manageable.

For the record, it's a really daggger's edge type of army. It's gonna be pretty painful playing it. But it'll be pretty satisfying when it works - it's like the plan All Comes Together, kind of thing.

[No One]

To add to the above: fitting 3 squads in buff range is perfectly doable (you can go 4, but that's messy before even worrying about terrain). Usefully with kill squads, maybe not. But that's where PA and/or staggered drops come in: send a squad off on it's own (they've got 4/5 saws: they can kill stuff without buffs) and with PA they don't need charge buffs. Sure, they still want buffs, but it's not integral to the function of the unit.

[ralphinator]

I had planned on having some of the neophytes start on the table, but in retrospect I think you're right that that would be a terrible idea. I wonder if dabbling in Hivecult ridgerunners is spreading myself too thin on varying strategies? I read a guide/article on reddit regardig getting great $ value out of starting an army and was inspired to work in ridgerunners, as well as being able to hit that sweet spot of only starting brood brothers, ridgerunners, magus, nexos, and the HC jackal on the board. I think this may be the best bang for my buck i can get when starting an army (5 start collecting boxes in total), and if my infantry horde invalidating AT weaponry idea is outdated, it wouldnt hurt to have some tanky ridgerunners.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [46 PL, 1CP, 773pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ Stratagems +

Broodcoven [-1CP]

Grandsire's Gifts [-3CP]: 2 Extra Sacred Relics

Specialist Detachment: Deliverance Broodsurge [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, -1CP, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Stratagem: Field Commander, Warlord Trait: Augur of the Insurgent

Primus [4 PL, -1CP, 75pts]: Bonesword, Broodcoven Primus, Stratagem: The Heart of the Creed, Warlord Trait: Inscrutable Cunning

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 160pts]
. 19x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 19x Blasting Charges, 19x Cultist Knife, 19x Hand Flamer, 19x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 190pts]: Cult Icon
. 15x Acolyte Hybrid: 15x Autopistol, 15x Blasting Charges, 15x Cultist Knife, 15x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [11 PL, 190pts]: Cult Icon
. 15x Acolyte Hybrid: 15x Autopistol, 15x Blasting Charges, 15x Cultist Knife, 15x Rending Claw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

+ Elites +

Clamavus [3 PL, 55pts]

Nexos [3 PL, 50pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [38 PL, 4CP, 577pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cult Creed: The Hivecult

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

Magus [5 PL, -1CP, 92pts]: Broodcoven Magus, Familiar, Stratagem: The Cult's Psyche, The Crouchling, Warlord Trait: Hivelord

+ Troops +

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: Brood Brothers Leader
. 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: Brood Brothers Leader
. 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

Brood Brothers Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: Brood Brothers Leader
. 9x Brood Brother: 9x Frag Grenades, 9x Lasgun

+ Fast Attack +

Achilles Ridgerunners [8 PL, 118pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

Achilles Ridgerunners [12 PL, 177pts]
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
. Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [34 PL, 5CP, 650pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Jackal Alphus [4 PL, 70pts]

Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Single-minded Obsession

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 76pts]
. 5x Neophyte Hybrid: 5x Autogun, 5x Autopistol, 5x Blasting Charges
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Mining Laser
. 2x Neophyte Hybrid (Webber): 2x Autopistol, 2x Blasting Charges, 2x Webber
. Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Kelermorph [3 PL, 75pts]

++ Total: [118 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[No One]

ralphinator said:

and if my infantry horde invalidating AT weaponry idea is outdated, it wouldnt hurt to have some tanky ridgerunners.

It's not outdated per se, but it's not reason enough to discard ridgerunners. They're so cheap that they've got the same pts per wound as a mining neo squad, with T5 4+ vs T3 5+/6++. They're still worse into basically any multi-damage weapon (which is most AV, even if it's only D2): >S5 and any AP and they're less tanky than neos against D2. But not that much worse, and they're a lot more tanky against D1. Since you need stuff on board and they're a reasonable economic purchase since you want start collecting anyway...

The only comment on list would be to make the hivecult mixed: you lose fall back and shoot on the alphus to get a useful <Cult> on the magus (probably BC to get the +1 to cast).

[kazetanade]

I mean, the Ridgerunner strategy is essentially:

3x3 Ridgerunners with HML + Flare
1x Primus
1x Alphus

which comes up to what, less than 700 points? Add 3 BroodBrothers for 820, and you've got another half an army to do whatever you want with it. It's a real plug and play and it gives you so much ground presence (8 units + 4 from strategems on the ground) and you're not actually worried of instantly dying T1 by accident (I remember the fearful days of Wyverns, Basilisks, and Whirlwinds threatening sudden death before I got to play).

As for outdated - I just think it's not as strong an argument as it once was. I feel the difference only really starts to pick up once we talk about 180++ Fearless 6+++ Gaunts, if you're running a few elite units of infantry that arent that hard to kill, the new type of anti-vehicle with high number of shots are still going to do you in. Like... do you think your Acolyte squad will survive much better against a HBC totting Riptide, or against the Ork Lootas, or against Chaos Oblitz? Even SM anti-tank is more often a melee capt or a Grav drop or Centurion melee, which all have the ability (other than the Capt, he sends in the other Teeth of Terra Capt instead) to murder infantry.

[niiai]

Do you think the flare is better then the spotter? I quite liked the log range.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

May 8, 2020 17:57:49 GMT niiai said:

Do you think the flare is better then the spotter? I quite liked the log range.

I think a lot of people mix and match so you get some FNP and some longer range. I only have one ridgerunner though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.