Please critique my first attempt at a 2000 pt list

[nutcase86]

Hi All,

This is my first attempt at a 2k nid list. Well first 2k list period lol. c&c welcome.

I can replace the maleceptor with 4 or so hive guard and shift some things around, but i like that the maleceptor can at least use psychic overload and fight better, to protect the zoanthropes if anything comes close as well as its 2cp stratagem to reduce incomming fire strength by 1 for the zoas. Also it benefits from the hive fleet adaptations where as the hive guard dont.

Im open to maybe joining the last 2 detachments into 1, maybe even running it as kronos. Mostly because im not sure of a hive fleet to use for the second detachments with the warriors.

Total of 14CP

Warlord traits/adaptive physiology, and bio-artefacts not selected yet

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [57 PL, 8CP, 878pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Hive Fleet: Kraken

+ HQ [23 PL, 365pts] +

Broodlord [8 PL, 115pts]

The Swarmlord [15 PL, 250pts]

+ Troops [34 PL, 513pts] +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer [240pts]: 20x Rending Claws [40pts]

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer [240pts]: 20x Rending Claws [40pts]

Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm [33pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids) [28 PL, 5CP, 392pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [5CP] +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Hive Fleet
. Other: Bio Metalic Cysts(-1 AP on all Scything Talons), Metamorphic Regrowth (each model regains 1 wound a turn)

+ HQ [12 PL, 150pts] +

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 75pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons

Tyranid Prime [6 PL, 75pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons

+ Troops [16 PL, 242pts] +

Hormagaunts [6 PL, 90pts]: 18x Hormagaunt [90pts]

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 76pts]
. Tyranid Warrior [23pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior [23pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon) [30pts]: Scything Talons, Venom Cannon [12pts]

Tyranid Warriors [5 PL, 76pts]
. Tyranid Warrior [23pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior [23pts]: Deathspitter [5pts], Scything Talons
. Tyranid Warrior (Bio-cannon) [30pts]: Scything Talons, Venom Cannon [12pts]

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [37 PL, 1CP, 730pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [1CP] +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Hive Fleet
. Other: Cranial Channeling (re roll 1 psychic test a turn), Metamorphic Regrowth (each model regains 1 wound a turn)

+ HQ [4 PL, 90pts] +

Neurothrope [4 PL, 90pts]

+ Elites [33 PL, 640pts] +

Maleceptor [9 PL, 160pts]: Massive Scything Talons [10pts]

Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: 6x Zoanthrope [12 PL, 240pts]

Zoanthropes [12 PL, 240pts]: 6x Zoanthrope [12 PL, 240pts]

++ Total: [122 PL, 14CP, 2,000pts] ++

[murderfiesta]

The primary issue I see with this list is not enough effective threats, without the board control to mitigate the issues that are potentially inherent in the strategy.

First, I think as soon as you run into a Thunderfire Cannon you auto-lose. You won't be able to ever get the Genestealer slingshot off with only two units so long as the opponent has at least 2 CP remaining. That means your opponent doesn't immediately need to worry about the Genestealers, which gives him time to keep picking away at them or devote some heavy firepower into the Maleceptor and Zoanthropes. 3++ is AMAZING, but they're still T4/W3 models, and if the opponent isn't feeling pressured by the rest of your list then they'll probably have enough firepower to devote to your zoanthropes to make a pretty decent dent in them before they reach the 24" Smite range.

Second, the second battalion is taking 20% of your list but isn't really doing anything efficiently. You've taken two Tyranid Primes (75 pts each) to buff two units of 3 warriors (76 pts each). The Primes are really not that good outside of their buffing aura, and you haven't gone so heavy into Warriors that it'd be super worth taking two Primes, so it's an inefficient use of points if you have other viable HQs you can take (another Neurothrope, or a Broodlord, for example).

Additionally, having two small units of warriors is running at counter-purposes to the tactics we can use to make warriors effective. The things that make them potentially viable these days (ignore -1 and -2 to saves; reduce damage taken by 1 stratagem) are capped with how many units they can affect a turn. A smart opponent will throw some decently chunky firepower at one squad to bait out the -1 damage taken stratagem, then piledriver the other squad. As a result, I don't think you're going to get much value out of Metamorphic Regrowth on this battalion. You'd also be better off with just a single squad of warriors compared to two, so that you can have a large unit to benefit from the -1 damage trait rather than needing to pick and choose between two smaller units.

For the rest of your 2nd detachment, I'm not sure bio-metallic cysts are worth taking either. You don't have enough hormagaunts to necessarily threaten kill pressure on anything that would really care all that much about -1 AP, and you don't have enough warriors to necessarily want to even get them into combat with anything that, again, would really care all that much about -1 AP (it's only 9 attacks per squad at S4, so not going to be hurting much in the way of dedicated combat troops). I think overall, the entirety of your 2nd detachment could probably be safely ignored by your opponents with the exception of the hormagaunts being a potential (but easily eliminated) short-term tarpit.

I think you have to roll your Vanguard detachment into your 2nd battalion, drop one Prime (+75 pts), combine the Warriors into one squad, get a unit of Rippers to complete the battalion (-33 pts), get one more warrior (-23 pts) and get three more hormagaunts (-15 pts), with 4 pts left to spare. Also consider dropping one Zoanthrope from each squad. An enemy has a high incentive to kill one Zoan off each squad early (not difficult to do) to easily diminish the power of the smite, but killing two zoanthropes off each squad given a high-threat environment will require substantial effort. Doing so will give you 80 more points; if you get rid of the additional warrior and the additional three hormagaunts (+42 pts) you've got 122 points, which is enough to get a Malanthrope (-120 pts) in the detachment. This will make your zoanthrope/warrior blob extremely tough to crack when combined with the Maleceptor. Otherwise, that 80 additional points can be used to max out your warrior squad (getting you a third venom cannon) and add a couple more hormagaunts to push it into the realm of being a legitimate tarpit threat, or max out the hormagaunt squad and get maybe another warrior. Bio-metallic cysts may be worthwhile under these conditions, especially if you max the hormagaunt squad. I'm not sure how useful Cranial Channeling will actually be, but I guess at worst it is saving you 1 CP every psychic phase, so there's probably some worthwhile testing to be done here.

If you make the above changes, you've gone from having 6 threats (Broodlord, Swarmlord, 2x genestealers, 2x zoanthropes) and easy target priority for your enemy to having 8 threats (Broodlord, Swarmlord, 2x Genestealers, Hormagaunts, Warriors, 2x Zoanthropes). One last thing on my mind that you could consider is swap the Hormagaunts in the custom detachment with the Ripper Swarm in the Kraken detachment. If you do this Bio-Metallic Cysts is not worthwhile in the custom detachment (consider finding the points for Boneswords?), but it allows you to slingshot the hormagaunts (especially if it's a large squad) if the opponent has a thunderfire cannon for your genestealers. If you can get Onslaught cast on the hormagaunts they'll be as fast as genestealers with the swarmlord slingshot, and while they won't really kill anything they can potentially tie up a HUGE amount of the enemy battle line to let your forces advance more safely.

[No One]

The warriors don't seem like they're doing anything: that's 300 pts of basically nothing with the primes. Also one psychic test reroll per turn is not good: I'd just go Leviathan for the zoans, but with regen 1 wound, it may still be better despite how stupid it is? Kronos is pointless, you get nothing from it.

Horms want to be Kraken with the Swarmlord: then you've got 3 units to throw across the board. The -1 AP doesn't really do that much, S3 doesn't push through enough wounds to matter usually. And you've still got the 1 CP strat if needed.

[nutcase86]

wow. That was an insanely detailed reply, thanks for taking the time to explain all that. I'm yet to really even play a comp or tournament game, but all your points made sense, will definitely look at making these changes