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Post by mule on Jan 14, 2020 16:43:57 GMT
Lower toughness and worse save. Cheaper? Yes. Better? Depends. Go second and get back with us on how it goes. This is still in beta mode. Just saying that's a lot of coin to drop on something that is unproven. You're not wrong, but toughness and save matter if you're in range. These boys stay far back, only a couple of shots will take out 1, maybe 2 a turn. Cfex, 3 dead a turn minimum because of range. Speaking of which, is scout move after you know who goes first or second? if not then I'll probalby just run BC to move without penalty. Then you are shooting full force without risk. After you know who goes first. |
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Post by xsquidz on Jan 14, 2020 17:56:35 GMT
You're not wrong, but toughness and save matter if you're in range. These boys stay far back, only a couple of shots will take out 1, maybe 2 a turn. Cfex, 3 dead a turn minimum because of range. Speaking of which, is scout move after you know who goes first or second? if not then I'll probalby just run BC to move without penalty. Then you are shooting full force without risk. After you know who goes first. Bladed Cog doesn't effect anything other then infantry. If you do the ridgerunners I think you want to do hive cult since they have the strat that gives +1 to hit a target, after its suffers a wound that shooting phase. Plus they have the warlord trait to re-roll 1's to hit in shooting. |
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 14, 2020 19:00:47 GMT
Uhm guys u realise that the 3 x 3 Ridge runners works solely on Hive Cult because of a strategem, right? They don't benefit from anything in the codex other than that, an Alphus within 6", and a Hivecult WLT to reroll 1s. You can't scout move and Cult Ambush at the same time so you're gonna have to choose one.
Is my memory correct and it's T5? This thing basically gets torn up by high volume of S6, S7, and S8 shots since most of those do 2 damage. It works in today's meta for the same reason 8 or 9 Carnifexen will - high focus on 1 or 2 MC, a lot of anti-infantry. Most lists don't deal with mass T7 chassis well, T5 is only 1 or 2 guns off from that. Hence why Tau works so well vs them, Drones screw Lascannons efficiency while Riptides have the right shooting volume. Faced up against the Relic Levi pew pew, you're likely losing a whole unit of 3 I think? (20 shots 2+ rr1s for 20 hits, S7 for 3+ wound to get 14 wounds, 10 fails for 2.5 dead Riderunners? Not great, but not the worst results. Its a great block of wounds.) At least 8 or 9 Fexes has the appropriate defense to deal with triple Tide and right output to handle Drones, but to be completely fair Ridge runners do have double the wound count ans double of anti tank for same points, roughly.
If they're T6, I think they're uniquely positioned to pair with MC gun line. Stack Maleceptor on, 3 Exocrene, 2 TFexes, 9 Runners, people are gonna balk at how hard this list is to remove. I hate how it's static though.
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Post by mule on Jan 14, 2020 19:35:34 GMT
Hive cult with alphus with gift from beyond to get the mortal effectively giving you a +2 to hit on a unit for the rest of your units.
I probably would opt against taking the reroll 1s and instead adapt a tyranid unit instead if youre taking them.
You can outrange tau with scout ridge runners. If you go first you can scout move them 9 to get better angles. If you go second youre perfectly fine as tau are hitting on 5+'s and still need to marker light you. Meanwhile you have 27 heavy stubber shots and 9d3 hvc shots going into riptides/drones. If they move up theyre hitting on worse numbers and if they stay back youre ripping the drone support. Pair that with the power of alex's list where if tau are within 36 youve basically got enough to charge genestealers into them. Lots of itc boards have L walls that are ruins that you can either a: hide behind or b: charge through.
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Post by timcz on Jan 14, 2020 19:59:03 GMT
54 Stubber shots isn’t it?
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Post by mule on Jan 14, 2020 20:00:55 GMT
54 Stubber shots isn’t it? Ya youre right. Never math in the morning 2 heavy stubbers each * 3 shots * 9 ridge runners |
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Post by 1b2a on Jan 15, 2020 15:10:17 GMT
Uhm guys u realise that the 3 x 3 Ridge runners works solely on Hive Cult because of a strategem, right? They don't benefit from anything in the codex other than that, an Alphus within 6", and a Hivecult WLT to reroll 1s. You can't scout move and Cult Ambush at the same time so you're gonna have to choose one. Is my memory correct and it's T5? This thing basically gets torn up by high volume of S6, S7, and S8 shots since most of those do 2 damage. It works in today's meta for the same reason 8 or 9 Carnifexen will - high focus on 1 or 2 MC, a lot of anti-infantry. Most lists don't deal with mass T7 chassis well, T5 is only 1 or 2 guns off from that. Hence why Tau works so well vs them, Drones screw Lascannons efficiency while Riptides have the right shooting volume. Faced up against the Relic Levi pew pew, you're likely losing a whole unit of 3 I think? (20 shots 2+ rr1s for 20 hits, S7 for 3+ wound to get 14 wounds, 10 fails for 2.5 dead Riderunners? Not great, but not the worst results. Its a great block of wounds.) At least 8 or 9 Fexes has the appropriate defense to deal with triple Tide and right output to handle Drones, but to be completely fair Ridge runners do have double the wound count ans double of anti tank for same points, roughly. If they're T6, I think they're uniquely positioned to pair with MC gun line. Stack Maleceptor on, 3 Exocrene, 2 TFexes, 9 Runners, people are gonna balk at how hard this list is to remove. I hate how it's static though. The range is the best defence against most of non-heavy weaponry, this is literally meants to be placed the the farthest back of your table, with ghost blips maxing your deployment safe zone. The levi is doing nothing, and if it does, it dies to CC counter |
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Post by mule on Jan 15, 2020 16:00:05 GMT
Uhm guys u realise that the 3 x 3 Ridge runners works solely on Hive Cult because of a strategem, right? They don't benefit from anything in the codex other than that, an Alphus within 6", and a Hivecult WLT to reroll 1s. You can't scout move and Cult Ambush at the same time so you're gonna have to choose one. Is my memory correct and it's T5? This thing basically gets torn up by high volume of S6, S7, and S8 shots since most of those do 2 damage. It works in today's meta for the same reason 8 or 9 Carnifexen will - high focus on 1 or 2 MC, a lot of anti-infantry. Most lists don't deal with mass T7 chassis well, T5 is only 1 or 2 guns off from that. Hence why Tau works so well vs them, Drones screw Lascannons efficiency while Riptides have the right shooting volume. Faced up against the Relic Levi pew pew, you're likely losing a whole unit of 3 I think? (20 shots 2+ rr1s for 20 hits, S7 for 3+ wound to get 14 wounds, 10 fails for 2.5 dead Riderunners? Not great, but not the worst results. Its a great block of wounds.) At least 8 or 9 Fexes has the appropriate defense to deal with triple Tide and right output to handle Drones, but to be completely fair Ridge runners do have double the wound count ans double of anti tank for same points, roughly. If they're T6, I think they're uniquely positioned to pair with MC gun line. Stack Maleceptor on, 3 Exocrene, 2 TFexes, 9 Runners, people are gonna balk at how hard this list is to remove. I hate how it's static though. The range is the best defence against most of non-heavy weaponry, this is literally meants to be placed the the farthest back of your table, with ghost blips maxing your deployment safe zone. The levi is doing nothing, and if it does, it dies to CC counter Do not blip them. If you blip you cant scout move. Put them on your deployment line and then move them back 9 out of range. |
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Post by 1b2a on Jan 15, 2020 16:16:08 GMT
The range is the best defence against most of non-heavy weaponry, this is literally meants to be placed the the farthest back of your table, with ghost blips maxing your deployment safe zone. The levi is doing nothing, and if it does, it dies to CC counter Do not blip them. If you blip you cant scout move. Put them on your deployment line and then move them back 9 out of range. Oh I meant the 1 cp ghost blip to zone your deployment. I never thought about deploying in range and then scout moving out of range though. I was thinking scout moving into your range. different flavor. A lot of vehicles can move and shoot pretty hard. How would deploying in range and backing out play out? |
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Post by mule on Jan 15, 2020 20:31:33 GMT
You can move back 9 inches. If other vehicles are pushing out their max distance then theyre in range of gs sling, or leave turn 2 deepstrike open.
Deploy smart, measure ranges be 1 inch out of their movement+gun range if you can. Deploy in LOS then move out of LOS to pull their units out of cover.
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Post by kazetanade on Jan 15, 2020 21:32:46 GMT
You bought 9 right? Give it a try. Theoretically it could work, practically I think you'll find you run out of space, but if you're just doing 9 Runners and then 6 HG with other non shooty stuff, could work.
Most suggestions with the units are to put it in range straight up, then scout move it into BLOS terrain if you don't do T1. Moving it out of range could work, since you then leverage your 14" movement on your turn to get into range. 1x3 this is definitely feasible. 3x3 I am not as clear. Tau move 12" + D6 rr on T1, with 30/36" range, I suppose its not impossible to skirt the range given you have nothing else valuable to shoot at. When you move the Alphus and the Runners into range to shoot, you get a 3+ to hit at best, so you'll have to get your first unit hitting with 3 lascannons wounding with 2, fail one. Your 2nd and 3rd units perform marginally better, for maybe 4 lascannon go through, unless they're playing no invul.
Definitely a strong contender vs Eldar, and theoretically has play as long as it stays out of range against 60% of marines guns (tough call, but maybe can draw BLOS) and you can deal with Cent alphastrike to begin with. Orks is probably the walk all over it moment tho, especially Smasha+SAG spam with Boyz. We have or should have other ways of dealing with that.
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Post by mule on Jan 15, 2020 23:41:05 GMT
Watch the charityhammer games you can see how it works.
If tau is moving into you theyre getting worse shooting. To avoid this they have to monkta and they have to move out into the board theyre limited because they have to keep their drones within 6" if they dont you get free charges on drones with your genestealers.
They also have to be within 6 of their commander. Theres a decent amount of limitations tau have.
That said tau are a bad matchup for pretty much every army. Including IF and IH so im not sure if i'd use them as a benchmark. I wouldn't say you outright lose to them but youre going to have a rough time, which is accurate for pretty much every list we have.
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Post by 1b2a on Jan 16, 2020 2:37:00 GMT
Watch the charityhammer games you can see how it works. If tau is moving into you theyre getting worse shooting. To avoid this they have to monkta and they have to move out into the board theyre limited because they have to keep their drones within 6" if they dont you get free charges on drones with your genestealers. They also have to be within 6 of their commander. Theres a decent amount of limitations tau have. That said tau are a bad matchup for pretty much every army. Including IF and IH so im not sure if i'd use them as a benchmark. I wouldn't say you outright lose to them but youre going to have a rough time, which is accurate for pretty much every list we have. If they move out and wipe out 1 or two squads its not the worst thing, they'll have to lead with their fast riptides or vehicles to reach, that leaves them vulnerable for a counterpunch. Their stuff is more valuable. I think it could work. I'll play test it in a month or so. I mean I would love to assault a riptide and kill it along with all the drones on it with my CC if they really want that first strike of 170 pts. |
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Post by mule on Jan 16, 2020 3:03:45 GMT
Watch the charityhammer games you can see how it works. If tau is moving into you theyre getting worse shooting. To avoid this they have to monkta and they have to move out into the board theyre limited because they have to keep their drones within 6" if they dont you get free charges on drones with your genestealers. They also have to be within 6 of their commander. Theres a decent amount of limitations tau have. That said tau are a bad matchup for pretty much every army. Including IF and IH so im not sure if i'd use them as a benchmark. I wouldn't say you outright lose to them but youre going to have a rough time, which is accurate for pretty much every list we have. If they move out and wipe out 1 or two squads its not the worst thing, they'll have to lead with their fast riptides or vehicles to reach, that leaves them vulnerable for a counterpunch. Their stuff is more valuable. I think it could work. I'll play test it in a month or so. I mean I would love to assault a riptide and kill it along with all the drones on it with my CC if they really want that first strike of 170 pts. If you're taking the alex list a lot of your list's backbone is actually those 170 point ridge runners. I mean you're still investing 601 points on paper units. They need to make their points back and do their job. It still isn't as easy as deploying ravenguard cents 9 inches away turn 1 and then killing 60 orks. And they only really work because they allow for another threat to also be on the board. IE Genestealers IE Hiveguard etc. |
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Post by 1b2a on Jan 16, 2020 4:28:47 GMT
If they move out and wipe out 1 or two squads its not the worst thing, they'll have to lead with their fast riptides or vehicles to reach, that leaves them vulnerable for a counterpunch. Their stuff is more valuable. I think it could work. I'll play test it in a month or so. I mean I would love to assault a riptide and kill it along with all the drones on it with my CC if they really want that first strike of 170 pts. If you're taking the alex list a lot of your list's backbone is actually those 170 point ridge runners. I mean you're still investing 601 points on paper units. They need to make their points back and do their job. It still isn't as easy as deploying ravenguard cents 9 inches away turn 1 and then killing 60 orks. And they only really work because they allow for another threat to also be on the board. IE Genestealers IE Hiveguard etc. I still dont know what the alex list is |
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