Jormungandr army composition

[hivefleetkerrigan]

There's a mismatch between how I run jormungandr and the hive fleets strategems/psychic power. I always run jormungandr as monsters to get 2+ saves. The power/strategem are all built around deep strike. I find I never deepstrike with jormungandr as I want all my units on the table for the maximum number of turns of shooting and that they should be able to take some punishment.

Is anyone else experiencing this disconnect? If so how are you dealing with it?

[killercroc]

I think the disconnect comes from the fact that the Jorm strat while making logical sense doesn't mesh well with the army buff in a synaptic way. Everything being in cover is great, being able to DS Infantry through tunnels is great but they have different play. Typically if your stuff is always in cover it leans towards a better shooty build, makes your stuff harder to kill and it doesn't work in combat but the ability to tunnel anywhere on the board leans closer to a combat build, but doing combat removes your cover bonus. Conceptually it makes sense, like WWI trench Tyranids, you can use the cover bonus to get closer and charge to have a combat army but why do that when you could run Kraken just to get there faster? getting into combat in 1 turn vs 2 turns but with +1 Sv is a big difference.

I wouldn't say it's a disconnect but more so how the game plays, what units benefit from it, and what actually happens on the board is what makes a big change in Jorm. I've run it a few times and mostly just count it as a +1 sv trait, ignore the tunnels completely and use shooting Warriors and Carnifex. I think you should look at it more as there are different ways to play a Jorm army and should focus on the style you want (be it trench hugging or tunnel bursting) and aim for that, not trying to do both at once outside of tactical reasons. Like you can mix both well, tunnel a shooting unit to a good spot and then unleash the dakka but it's just a tool not a requirement. You shouldn't think to always tunnel, but tunnel against certain opponents at certain times. The power makes this tactic better but it's a very limited window on when you can use it. If you want to use the power plan your army around using it turn 2 and where you will go from there.

[gigasnail]

there would be less disconnect and more synergy with jorm units if we had 1st turn deep strike back.

[v0iddrgn]

I use Jorm Hive Fleet for my Nidzilla list also for the 2+ saves. I also have a DS element so that I can use Shockguard. I find that Shockguard really benefit from the cover and strat Jorm has to offer.

[N.I.B.]

Jormungandr was written back when we could turn 1 deepstrike. Also before the silly Auspex Scans and 12" Space Marine no-go zones. So same for me, Jormungandr for the cover saves, reserve plays can be the odd one out but not something I want to build around.

[bigpig]

Jan 2, 2020 9:29:23 GMT N.I.B. said:

Jormungandr was written back when we could turn 1 deepstrike. Also before the silly Auspex Scans and 12" Space Marine no-go zones. So same for me, Jormungandr for the cover saves, reserve plays can be the odd one out but not something I want to build around.

Gospel.

The WL trait is synergistic at least

[xtztxtxz]

I still think there's a good case for deep striking via Jormungandr tunnels as our best infantry shooting options work from 12" away. Lurking Maws increases Devourer Gaunts output by 50%, while Warriors or Shockguard can also be made more resilient (and less of an expensive suicide unit) with Adaptive Physiology too.

The only disconnect I see is that this psychic power seems an obvious choice to run Tyrannocytes with, but they don't get any benefit from the hive fleet trait.

[kazetanade]

Deepstriking HG and Exocrene - it powers up both units substantially, dropping it in a turn a time, and utterly annihilating a unit. With shooters dropping in, and stuff on the board being hard to ferret out, you have a decent synergistic army concept.

The fluff of the fleet is really well represented, the main disjoint is really just how difficult it is for Monsters to benefit off the spell (and the relic being trash tier).

[terminatoruk]

The way I run Jorm is as a gunline with multiple shooty Tyranid Warrior (/w prime) and Carnifexes (/w Enchanced Senses) for lots of 3+ shooting with decent saving throws screened by lots of Termagants respawned by a Tervigon - walking slowly up the board keeping things at arms length.

The +1 to save helps to endure the first turn of shooting (with Blood of Baal we have more ways to mitagate damage now as well via Strategems and Adaptive Psysiology) before the Turn 2 Melee punch arrives.

Using a Trygon, I use the 'They Came from Below' strat to pop up a big blop of extended-carapace Genestealers (/w Enchanced Resistance Adaptive Psysiology) along with a Broodlord and Neutrothrope (with Catalyst and Onslaught between them).

At this stage, get the Neurothrope to pop Catalyst onto them and then decide to either go all-in and attempt the 9" charge or keep them stationary this turn to provide a massive distraction that your opponent won't want to ignore but has to deal with their 3+/5++/5+++ save (that also ignores AP -1 and -2). You can advance them next turn and have the Broodlord cast Onslaught on them so they can still charge despite having extended carapaces.

The idea is 'threat overload' where there are multiple high-threat targets on 2 different fronts that need dealing with - split fire won't take them out and focused fire means you are going have something left at near full-stength ready to hit the enemy hard.

[j0rdan]

I feel you, OP. I've lost count of the times I wished I could use Chameleonic Mutation on something other than Kraken.

That said, I have found Jorm rules to work best for Dakkafexen (with -1 to hit and +1 BS), which are still a fine bang for your buck imo. Deep striking stopped figuring into the equation when I stopped dropping turn 1 flyrants/mawlocs/trygons.

[1b2a]

Tunneling is the best thing ever since your (please do not swear) doesnt die until you decide to put them at risk to do damage.

[v0iddrgn]

Yep, that's why I continue to do it. I mean, I built my whole list around it when the codex dropped but now I at least have an echo of that list working for me.

[1b2a]

Jan 2, 2020 16:22:47 GMT v0iddrgn said:

Yep, that's why I continue to do it. I mean, I built my whole list around it when the codex dropped but now I at least have an echo of that list working for me.

It's kind of out-dated. Drop pods at the cheaper price are actually kinda worth it so you can get another hive fleet for it.

[v0iddrgn]

Again, I mainly take Jorm for the cover saves on my monsters, the strat allowing me to DS my HG is a bonus. Plus using a trygon as the delivery unit makes it so my opponent has to wipe him out (instead of my other monsters) in order to make sure he doesn't eat them. T-cytes don't offer that kind of psychological presence.