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Post by LordPathos on Jan 6, 2020 5:06:51 GMT
Fair enough. Also dropped 1 rock saw to fit in a few more regular Acolytes back into the units. Also, decided to take the Voidwyrm on the Patty. Since my buddy is bringing TS, I'm assuming there is gonna have a few flamers in there somewhere. Will be nice to charge them without overwatch.
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Post by Hyrrokin on Jan 6, 2020 9:05:52 GMT
I'm not really at home in gsc but adding a biovore to the tyranid batt Wil really help in denying powers and general annoyance by blocking or killing the last hiding model in a unit. You could also consider Lictors to deny overwatch instead of patty. 2 Lictors and 1 biovore is the same as patty.
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Post by No One on Jan 6, 2020 9:20:01 GMT
Patty's required HQ, amulet's "guaranteed", and also does far more with fearless, combat and psychic, esp in subsequent turns. Biovore...I don't see it being that effective as a move blocker at only 1, it isn't finishing off a unit unless you get a bit lucky. And Deepest Shadow is good, but most of the important psychics are reliable even through it (Eldar, Word Bearers).
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Post by Hyrrokin on Jan 6, 2020 16:11:16 GMT
He's playing his friend with TS, armigers and cp chaos marines. So no Eldar.
Biovore block depends on terrain but one between two buildings could block of the armigers big base and definitely the bigger knights.
I was not too sure of the gsc list after the changes in post. If you need it go for it but a sanctus sniper with relic could be really good against TS, and better in my opinion. Lictors are as guarentied as patty unless you mean to get the charge. you have pretty good chances at 2d6+1 and reroll especially with several though.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jan 8, 2020 7:42:40 GMT
The probably more solid one I've been toying with since giving up on the one above ++ Battalion Detachment Behemoth Neurothrope The Swarmlord 19 Genestealers 19 Genestealers 3 Rippers Lictor ++ Battalion Detachment Kronos Neurothrope Ripper Swarm 6 Hive Guard 2x Biovore ++ Patrol Detachment Behemoth Malanthrope Tervigon 27x Hormagaunt 30x Termagant 30x Termagant Seems your patrol is supposed to be a battallion, and vice versa. How do you plan to work around the TFC problem? It's very real. Hive Guards can kill it, but are normally outranged against awake opponents. Dermic Symbiosis on the Tervigon I assume?
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Post by bigpig on Jan 8, 2020 15:15:31 GMT
The probably more solid one I've been toying with since giving up on the one above ++ Battalion Detachment Behemoth Neurothrope The Swarmlord 19 Genestealers 19 Genestealers 3 Rippers Lictor ++ Battalion Detachment Kronos Neurothrope Ripper Swarm 6 Hive Guard 2x Biovore ++ Patrol Detachment Behemoth Malanthrope Tervigon 27x Hormagaunt 30x Termagant 30x Termagant Seems your patrol is supposed to be a battallion, and vice versa. How do you plan to work around the TFC problem? It's very real. Hive Guards can kill it, but are normally outranged against awake opponents. Dermic Symbiosis on the Tervigon I assume? Yes it is. I shorthanded it in BS and meant to mention in the post but didn't. Regarding TFC.... Go first. I mean honestly is there another answer? It is suc a broken combo of strats that a ground assault army really has no other answer. The only way around being TFCd is to not play an army that has to move across the board and assault. Ok, that being said, I have 3 slingshot threats between the horms and 2 stealers. pre-tfc, that combo has given me options if screens are well played and thin enough, yet still deep enough (you know what I mean) and I can't guarantee a tri-point. I figure now I have at least one that doesn't get TFC stalled. Other thoughts maybe? I'm open Yes, dermic symbiosis on Tervigon and ignore -1 -2 on Hive Guard My LVO goal this year is 4-2 with 3-3 being "ok." I've done better in the past but we are really meta hobbled this year. I really just want to represent our faction and hold down my ITC spot this time around
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jan 8, 2020 15:28:19 GMT
I've been toying with the idea of plopping metabolic overdrive on a unit that has been thunderfired. Sure, I have to wait a turn to assault, but I was going to have to anyways. Also, that forces the enemy to make a concerted effort to dislodge my stealers that are in their face.
Also, if you deploy second, another idea is to put a unit of rippers closer to the thunderfire cannon. That way, if they go for the 2x shots, one round is going into a unit you don't care about. Regardless, they can then only thunderfire one unit of stealers. The other can then sling up the board. Note: please correct me if I'm wrong about the above. I've only faced new marines 2x.
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Post by No One on Jan 8, 2020 15:40:20 GMT
Also, that forces the enemy to make a concerted effort to dislodge my stealers that are in their face. And you just delivered them to rapid fire/charge range, so it's probably not going to be an arduous task. I mean, it can work. But outside of favourable terrain, I doubt it's going to be a helpful play. Which will do nothing, because there's no targeting restrictions.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jan 8, 2020 15:47:08 GMT
So this is your LVO list? I had one game with Stealers in the TFC meta, faced Ultramarines. He had a single TFC, but shooting twice with rerolls on everything. Stealers did nothing. Granted, IIRC I didn't plan for it so didn't really have other slingshot alternatives. But it made me go full MC spam (have 14 MC's in my best performing list). Deployment is crucial in your matchup, deploying second can be important (to get units in position to threaten TFC's), but in many scenarios that means you're also playing second which isn't ideal, and regardless it's nothing you can really plan for. But as you say, it is what it is.
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jan 8, 2020 15:50:51 GMT
Also, that forces the enemy to make a concerted effort to dislodge my stealers that are in their face. And you just delivered them to rapid fire/charge range, so it's probably not going to be an arduous task. I mean, it can work. But outside of favourable terrain, I doubt it's going to be a helpful play. Which will do nothing, because there's no targeting restrictions. I thought the double fire strategem required you to fire at the closest unit to begin with?
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Post by No One on Jan 8, 2020 16:02:47 GMT
Nope. The only restriction is that you can only use it on weapons that ignore LoS (which basically just means whirlwinds can't double tap stormbolters I guess).
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Jan 8, 2020 16:13:52 GMT
Nope. The only restriction is that you can only use it on weapons that ignore LoS (which basically just means whirlwinds can't double tap stormbolters I guess). That sucks. Thanks for the correction!
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Post by bigpig on Jan 9, 2020 3:09:00 GMT
So this is your LVO list? I had one game with Stealers in the TFC meta, faced Ultramarines. He had a single TFC, but shooting twice with rerolls on everything. Stealers did nothing. Granted, IIRC I didn't plan for it so didn't really have other slingshot alternatives. But it made me go full MC spam (have 14 MC's in my best performing list). Deployment is crucial in your matchup, deploying second can be important (to get units in position to threaten TFC's), but in many scenarios that means you're also playing second which isn't ideal, and regardless it's nothing you can really plan for. But as you say, it is what it is. Unless my Fex's come in and I can quick paint them for MC spam, then yeah.
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Post by LordPathos on Jan 13, 2020 2:15:57 GMT
So had the game and unfortunately we had to call it at the end of T2. Late arrivals, setting up, goofing around, and relearning a lot of the rules really slowed down the game.
This was the final list for both of us: Me - Kronos Batt 2 Neurothropes, 1 with Barb 3x3 Rippers 6 Hive Guard 6 Zoanthropes 2 Exocrines
2 Twisted Helix Batts (combining to save space) Patty with Voidwyrm and +1S & +1A trait Primus with units can Heroic Intervention trait Magus with increase aura range trait Iconward from Broodsurge Deliverance for re-roll charges trait 3x10 Neophytes with 1 Grenade Launcher 3x12~13 Acolytes with 2 Rock Saws and Icon Clamavus
Him - Thousand Son Vanguard Exalted Sorc on Disc Ranged Zaangors on discs Walking Zaangors with swords Fancy character Zaangor sorc on disc
Red Corsairs Batt Sorcerer in Termie PA Lord 3x5 CSM squads 2 Helbrutes (1 with Rocket and Plasma, other with Melta and fist) Defiler with Lascannons and Battle Cannon
Super Heavy 2x1 War Dogs Defiler(?) Knight with Avenger Gatling and Chainsword relic
One of the new CA 2019 missions with attacker and defender. Attack sets up whole army and goes first, defender picks deployment type and zones. I decided to be the defender and while I could have picked better for objective purposes, I was more worried about his army. I was expecting Rubrics and Scarab Termies, not 3 knights. I picked Dawn of War deployment and he set up everything pretty evenly across the board. EXCEPT! He put the Knight a little to the right of the center along with all his Zaangors and Exalted Sorc even further right. I castled in the far left and pretty much abandoned the option of getting the objectives on the right side of the board or could grab with Rippers later. For reference all I had on the board was all my Kronos detachment, minus rippers, and all my GSC was underground, minus Neophytes.
We didnt record the game play by play but the big events was as follows: His T1 he completely killed 1 Exocrine but had to use the Knight, War Dogs, Defiler, and ranged Helbrute to do it. He pops a +1T on his Knight. My T1 Symbiostorm Exocrine shot everything into the Knight, took a few wounds off. Zoanthrope and non-Barb Neuro do what they can do the first War Dog and put Catalyst on the surviving Exo. Hive Guard split fired with regular shooting and with Single-minded Annihilation to finish off the War Dog and do a few more wounds to the Knight. T9 vs Impaler Cannon made me angry.
T2 is a little more of the same, he moves the Knight closer along with the melta/fist Helbrute and all the Zaangors. Kills a unit of Neophytes on an objective and takes out a Hive Guard. He managed to weasel his Sorc in Termie armor and relic melta right next to the Exo, doesnt charge it. I think he didnt want to risk the overwatch with exploding 6s. Said Exo is eventually brought down to 3 wounds, catalyst saved it from full death. Second War Dog tries to pepper the Zoanthropes that are getting close but cant get through the 3++. Helbrute charges into Neophytes body blocking for the Barb Neuro but they were very spread out, he killed a few, I didnt pile it so they were out of combat and I could shoot it if I wanted to. I decide to put Symbiostorm on Hive Guard this time. Got the super smite off with Zoans on the 2nd War Dog, Exocrine shoots everything into the Knight, Hive Guard split fire again to finish off War Dog and actually brought Knight decently low. I move the Exo over a bit, pop the new BoB strat to not count as moving. Then the GSC come in. Very tricky placement to get everything on the board within range of the Knight and the Zaangors (they needed to go away before killing off the Hive Guard). Perfect Ambush gets me a 1 inch move and I didnt want to spend the CP to reroll. One of the Acolyte squads goes to body block the Exo and kill Sorc (who was also trying to Death Hex the Zoans). I only get Mass Hypnosis off to stop overwatch from ranged Zaangors. Really wanted to Mind Control the Knight... Anyways, Patty charges Knight with no overwatch due to Voidwyrm relic and makes it, 1 unit of Acolytes charges it after, other Acolyte unit multicharges Knight, ranged Zaangors, and Exalted Zaangor Sorc thing. Patty kills Knight easy, it only had like 4 wounds left at that point and got 2 Rending hits on top of everything else, and apparently Knights dont get an invuln in CC? Knight doesnt explode, he uses strat to bring it back 1 inch away from enemy units, he thinks its safe. Well, unit of Acolytes pile into it and some nearby CSM and Rock Saw the Knight back down no prob. Doesn't explode again. 2nd Acolytes get a few ranged Zangoors and bring the special chicken to 1 wound. He retaliates and does a good amount of damage with his Zaangors but Patty auto pass aura is too good.
And that was were we had to stop due to the store closing. VP wise, I was losing by 2 or 3 and 2 of my active objectives were to make his units fail morale, the last was Witch Hunter. I feel like if we continued it could have gone either way. We did a 'what if we did T3' rolls and he would have killed my Exo, fallen back with the ranged Zaangors closer to the Hive Guard, charged the melee Zangoors into Acos, would have peppered the Zoans some more. My Acos at Sorc would have killed him easy, gone back underground eventually to pop up somewhere else, and I would have done my best to take a few objectives and kill the Zangoors. Patty would have caught his TS Sorc or the 1W chicken Sorc and would have given me Warlord and Witch Hunter, maybe a 'poor' smite from Zoans would have killed enough of the small SCM squad to make them fail morale for another 2. It could have swung either way.
It was fun, it was scary, but I think I did as best as I could have. Zoans did some good smiting work, if my first Exo didnt bite it before shooting it probably would have been a very different game. Especially if I didnt have to use a unit of Acos to go after a single Termie Sorc. We also had the store staff put the table together and it was very good, non-bias setup, but the problem was the bigger terrain pieces were these flat topped rocks. Like out in a wasteland desert. We both agreed standing on top shouldnt be cover, and they werent big pieces and they were round, I could never fully hide my Hive Guard from LoS. It is what is but it was a good game.
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Post by No One on Jan 13, 2020 7:29:29 GMT
VP wise, I was losing by 2 or 3 and 2 of my active objectives were to make his units fail morale If you were playing CA19 (or even 18...) you shouldn't have had those in the deck: morale cards are some of the worst. The strat is end of phase, so it would've been.
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