Hive Commander and Single-minded Annihilation

[zimko]

I saw an interesting debate about combining these two abilities and wanted to get the hive's thoughts on it.

Hive Commander: In each of your Shooting phases, you can pick one friendly <HIVE FLEET> unit within 6" of the Swarmlord. That unit can move (and Advance, if you wish) as if it were the Movement phase instead of shooting.

Single-minded Annihilation (2 CP): Use this Stratagem at the end of your Shooting phase. Select a Tyranids Infantry unit from your army -- that unit can immediately shoot again.


So the strategy is... Move a Flyrant or Genestealer unit. Then use Hive Commander on that unit. Then, use Single-minded Annihilation to either shoot... or move again because Hive Commander is still active on that unit.

EDIT: Can't work on a Flyrant cause they're not Infantry (duh) but could work on Warriors or Genestealers.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I err on the side of no. You have to have shot to be able to shoot again.

[zimko]

Dec 27, 2019 15:39:47 GMT hivefleetkerrigan said:

I err on the side of no. You have to have shot to be able to shoot again.

Hmm, well instead, you could shoot normally, then use Single Minded Annihilation to 'shoot again' then use Hive Commander to 'move instead of shooting'. Thus giving you double move and shoot in the same turn. It may not be a very useful tactic but it could come in handy. Especially since Warriors are becoming more popular with the buffs they received.

[gigasnail]

..no you cant.

[nintura]

No. It says you can move AS IF it were the movement phase.

The other says it can shoot again. You're not replacing your shooting with an ability that says "this unit may move instead of shooting during the shooting phase"

[zimko]

I don't see how you can't use Single-minded annihilation, then use Hive Commander though. Sure you can't move 3 times, but you could move > shoot > move.

[purestrain]

Dec 27, 2019 16:47:40 GMT zimko said:

I don't see how you can't use Single-minded annihilation, then use Hive Commander though. Sure you can't move 3 times, but you could move > shoot > move.

SMA is end of phase, cant use HC at the end of phase.

[zimko]

Dec 27, 2019 16:59:31 GMT purestrain said:

Dec 27, 2019 16:47:40 GMT zimko said:

I don't see how you can't use Single-minded annihilation, then use Hive Commander though. Sure you can't move 3 times, but you could move > shoot > move.

SMA is end of phase, cant use HC at the end of phase.

Is 'end of phase' not still during that phase? Isn't there precedence for stuff like 'fight at the end of phase' abilities still allowing you to do things like Overrun?

[mule]

Dec 27, 2019 17:09:14 GMT zimko said:

Dec 27, 2019 16:59:31 GMT purestrain said:

SMA is end of phase, cant use HC at the end of phase.

Is 'end of phase' not still during that phase? Isn't there precedence for stuff like 'fight at the end of phase' abilities still allowing you to do things like Overrun?

After you do all of the "end of phase" stuff the phase ends.

You can't do more stuff unless it's also "end of phase"

[zimko]

This FAQ pretty much says that is wrong.

Q: When using an ability or Stratagem at the end of the Fight
phase to immediately fight again (e.g. Fury of Khorne) and the
selected unit moves within 1" of an enemy unit that has not yet
fought this phase, after fighting with the unit selected, can that
enemy unit now fight even though it’s the end of the Fight phase?
A: Yes.

[gigasnail]

That's not how that works.

[zimko]

Alright well, if no one else thinks it's possible to move > shoot > move with this then I'll just forget about it.

[kazetanade]

I don't think most people would accept the argument because it sounds real suspe t, but you should try with a local TO see if it gets any traction.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Note hive commander is worded as "move as though it was your movement phase instead of shooting" you can't move instead of shooting and later shoot again.