Charge rules (+1 dice discard lowest)

[des]

If i have a Behemot Trygon with:

- Arachnacyte Gland: +1 dice and discard lowest

- Hive Instinct: +1 dice and discard lowest

- Hunter’s Drive: +1 dice and discard lowest.

Do I roll 5 dices and discard 3?

If the charge fails do i roll 5 again? or only 2?

[killercroc]

Yes you roll 5 and discard 3, and the re-roll should apply to all dice not just the base 2 so it should be roll 5, drop 3 with re-rolls.

[1b2a]

That's a lot of rules for death on overwatch and auspex scan.

[bigpig]

Dec 18, 2019 17:36:01 GMT killercroc said:

Yes you roll 5 and discard 3, and the re-roll should apply to all dice not just the base 2 so it should be roll 5, drop 3 with re-rolls.

I'm actually not sold on this. I believe there is a case to be made to discard "the lowest" ONCE. The rules don't say roll an extra one and discard one. When these stack and the "discard the lowest" triggers, an interpretation can be made that this takes effect simultaneously rather than sequentially. The odds of 5 dice actually happening is super slim, but 4D6 discarding one down to 3d6 is very doable. It requires an investment of either 2CP or 1CP and a relic. There is a lot of precedent set for 3d6 charges (including some at 8") for that investment or less.

I was actually in the process of sending the question in to ITC for tournament ruling when I saw this. I'll let you know if we have any joy.

[kazetanade]

Dec 20, 2019 3:42:34 GMT bigpig said:

Dec 18, 2019 17:36:01 GMT killercroc said:

Yes you roll 5 and discard 3, and the re-roll should apply to all dice not just the base 2 so it should be roll 5, drop 3 with re-rolls.

I'm actually not sold on this. I believe there is a case to be made to discard "the lowest" ONCE. The rules don't say roll an extra one and discard one. When these stack and the "discard the lowest" triggers, an interpretation can be made that this takes effect simultaneously rather than sequentially. The odds of 5 dice actually happening is super slim, but 4D6 discarding one down to 3d6 is very doable. It requires an investment of either 2CP or 1CP and a relic. There is a lot of precedent set for 3d6 charges (including some at 8") for that investment or less.

I was actually in the process of sending the question in to ITC for tournament ruling when I saw this. I'll let you know if we have any joy.

The rules say add 1 dice and discard 1 dice, not lowest.

[bigpig]

Dec 20, 2019 3:44:59 GMT kazetanade said:

Dec 20, 2019 3:42:34 GMT bigpig said:

I'm actually not sold on this. I believe there is a case to be made to discard "the lowest" ONCE. The rules don't say roll an extra one and discard one. When these stack and the "discard the lowest" triggers, an interpretation can be made that this takes effect simultaneously rather than sequentially. The odds of 5 dice actually happening is super slim, but 4D6 discarding one down to 3d6 is very doable. It requires an investment of either 2CP or 1CP and a relic. There is a lot of precedent set for 3d6 charges (including some at 8") for that investment or less.

I was actually in the process of sending the question in to ITC for tournament ruling when I saw this. I'll let you know if we have any joy.

The rules say add 1 dice and discard 1 dice, not lowest.

Well then that is pretty plain. All the "summaries" I've seen is "the lowest." My FLGS hasn't had the book in stock so I don't have it in hand till this weekend (if I'm lucky). If you have the actual physical rule there and that is the language then I'll withdraw my wishlisting

[killercroc]

Exactly, all the ways to add a dice do say to roll an additional dice, not roll 3, so you can stack up to 3, plus with Behemoths wording it says you re-roll failed charge rolls not a specific amount of dice so you'd get to re-roll them all. It's pretty nuts but should be fun!

[kazetanade]

It's decent - with Kraken advance, its not uncommon to get 2/5/6 type results, with a reroll making things reasonably consistent. Of course getting a combination of a 9 is harder than just 1 result of 5+, and that's where my concern is. 4 dice rerolling gives a reaaaaally good chance for 4 and 5 though.

Back to Flyraaaants.....

[des]

My plan is something like this:

Obviusly you need to survive turn one with at least one hive tyrant and clear screens.

Then in turn two you move your hive tyrant with quad devourers al least 18" where do you want to charge, you deepstrike tyranocyte with swarmlord, a trygon with 30 hormagaunt or 20 genestealers, depending if you want to kill or to trap, and a lictor if you want to try to charge with him first to deny overwatch in your hive tyrant.

Trygon is equpped with Arachnacyte Gland, +1 to charge, and +1 dice and discard.

Hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands, +1 to charge

Hive Tyrant with adrenal glands, +1 to charge and +1 advanced

You need to kill at leats one model with hive tyrant, with 24 shoots, it should be posible. This gave you access to Hunter’s Drive Stratagem(1CP), this gives your swarmlord +1 dice and discard lowest.

Then you use your swarmlord to move again your hive tyrant to guarateed charge to the unit. This gives you access to Hive Instinct Stratagem (1CP), this hives you +1 dice and discard lowest for the trygon, swarmlord, hormagaunt.

Now you have:

Trygon charge with 8+ with 4 dices discarding two.

Hormagaunt charge with 8+ with 3 dices discarding one.

Swarmlord charge with 9+ with 4 dices discarding two.

All of them can reroll charges with behemot or i you want kraken you can use the new Synaptic Lure Kraken Psychic Power.

And you can reroll one dice for 1CP too.

I dont have yet the maths about the charges but i have to try it

Sorry for my bad english

[des]

Dec 20, 2019 11:10:46 GMT des said:

Trygon charge with 8+ with 4 dices discarding two.

Hormagaunt charge with 8+ with 3 dices discarding one.

Swarmlord charge with 9+ with 4 dices discarding two.

I think i have the maths now, without rerolling:

Hormagaunt has 68% approx.

Trygon has 82% approx.

And Swarmlord has 69% approx

[purestrain]

AC Gland REPLACES the adrenal gland, you dont get the +1

[des]

Dec 20, 2019 11:10:46 GMT des said:

My plan is something like this:

Obviusly you need to survive turn one with at least one hive tyrant and clear screens.

Then in turn two you move your hive tyrant with quad devourers al least 18" where do you want to charge, you deepstrike tyranocyte with swarmlord, a trygon with 30 hormagaunt or 20 genestealers, depending if you want to kill or to trap, and a lictor if you want to try to charge with him first to deny overwatch in your hive tyrant.

Trygon is equpped with Arachnacyte Gland, +1 to charge, and +1 dice and discard.

Hormagaunts with Adrenal Glands, +1 to charge

Hive Tyrant with adrenal glands, +1 to charge and +1 advanced

You need to kill at leats one model with hive tyrant, with 24 shoots, it should be posible. This gave you access to Hunter’s Drive Stratagem(1CP), this gives your swarmlord +1 dice and discard lowest.

Then you use your swarmlord to move again your hive tyrant to guarateed charge to the unit. This gives you access to Hive Instinct Stratagem (1CP), this hives you +1 dice and discard lowest for the trygon, swarmlord, hormagaunt.

Now you have:

Trygon charge with 8+ with 4 dices discarding two.

Hormagaunt charge with 8+ with 3 dices discarding one.

Swarmlord charge with 9+ with 4 dices discarding two.

All of them can reroll charges with behemot or i you want kraken you can use the new Synaptic Lure Kraken Psychic Power.

And you can reroll one dice for 1CP too.

I dont have yet the maths about the charges but i have to try it

Sorry for my bad english

Dec 20, 2019 12:30:50 GMT purestrain said:

AC Gland REPLACES the adrenal gland, you dont get the +1

Stay with Adrenal Glands then with Trygon and you have (without rerolling):

Trygon charge with 8+ with 3 dices discarding one. (68% approx)
Hormagaunt charge with 8+ with 3 dices discarding one. (68% approx)
Swarmlord charge with 9+ with 4 dices discarding two. (69% approx)

For me the priority is the swarmlord, hormagaunts and then trygon.